M10M gate coming?

[BrianS]

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3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I'm not sure how you could calculate the difference between the frames halves since the exposure defect starts at the top center but is gone before it gets to the center of the frame. I suppose you could measure a single pixel at the top between all frames, but given the fact that the defect is on a vertical gradient, I'd be at a loss as to how to proceed.

I shipped mine back to Leica Miami this afternoon for a credit toward a 28 Lux-M, so I can't do any further testing.

Shooting an image of a uniformly lit scene: you are saying the difference disappears as you go down the image? It is visible at the top and gone by the bottom? I can think of some things that could cause that. Usually voltage level problems. If the difference disappears because the bottom of the scene is bright, as shown in the example- the problem can be the calibration coefficients need to be corrected. The M Monochrom and M9 (CCD) are easy to write code for as the DNG files are uncompressed.

Edited June 19, 2021 by BrianS

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

Shooting an image of a uniformly lit scene: you are saying the difference disappears as you go down the image? It is visible at the top and gone by the bottom? I can think of some things that could cause that. Usually voltage level problems. If the difference disappears because the bottom of the scene is bright, as shown in the example- the problem can be the calibration coefficients need to be corrected. The M Monochrom and M9 (CCD) are easy to write code for as the DNG files are uncompressed.

When I shot my ceiling where it’s all the same tone, still only the top 1/3 shows the issue. The difference between the halves is gone before the center.

I think some are seeing a thin dark line straight down the middle, but I never saw that.

Edited June 19, 2021 by hdmesa

[Jeff S]

23 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

When I shot my ceiling where it’s all the same tone, still only the top 1/3 shows the issue. The difference between the halves is gone before the center.

I think some are seeing a thin dark line straight down the middle, but I never saw that.

With or without contrast adjustments or other processing actions?

Jeff

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

With or without contrast adjustments or other processing actions?

Jeff

In some shots I can barely see it there before adding any adjustments. It helps to see it by moving the image left and right on the screen to let the vertical line/difference catch my eye (similar to walking by a large print in a gallery, you would notice a faint vertical difference between the halves more readily than standing still in front of it.)

Adding contrast, clarity, dehaze — any and all start to make the difference between the halves more noticeable. In many shots it’s nearly invisible until contrast is added.

[Mark II]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:29 AM, hdmesa said:

My Q2M did not have this split-exposure issue, so the problem is specific to the M10M sensor. Thinking I will return the M10M and put the money toward a 28 Lux for my M10-R. I'm guessing the demosiacing process from the Bayer color filter array on the M10-R more effectively hides or negates the split-exposure issue.

Is it possible that the problem is at least partially due to the raw processor that used? The captured images usually contains small masked areas at the image edge which can potentially be used to correct for some (not all) calibration issues. 
 

has anyone compared the same image developed in Adobe RAW, CO or (eg) Iridient?

[hdmesa]

10 hours ago, Mark II said:

Is it possible that the problem is at least partially due to the raw processor that used? The captured images usually contains small masked areas at the image edge which can potentially be used to correct for some (not all) calibration issues. 
 

has anyone compared the same image developed in Adobe RAW, CO or (eg) Iridient?

It's been compared in Lightroom (Adobe RAW engine) and Capture One and it shows in both. I highly doubt it's an Adobe or Phase One issue since my Q2 Monochrom didn't have the same problem.

I don't have my M10M any more, but maybe someone can see if they can get the in-camera JPEGs to show the issue by setting JPEG contrast to High then applying contrast in Photoshop. That would rule out the post-processing of the DNG.

[RMF]

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duplicate

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by RMF
duplicate- please delete

[RMF]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

It's been compared in Lightroom (Adobe RAW engine) and Capture One and it shows in both. I highly doubt it's an Adobe or Phase One issue since my Q2 Monochrom didn't have the same problem.

I don't have my M10M any more, but maybe someone can see if they can get the in-camera JPEGs to show the issue by setting JPEG contrast to High then applying contrast in Photoshop. That would rule out the post-processing of the DNG.

I just tried with a series of shots on a blank ceiling and haven't been able to recreate the center line issue with my M10m; seems again to not consistently show up in similar shooting conditions. I'll keep my camera set up with DNG+JPG (set to high con) just in case I see the issue again. If anyone can do the similar, capture the issue and report their jpg findings in PS that would be great. 

 

 

 

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Edited June 20, 2021 by RMF

[jplomley]

17 hours ago, RMF said:

I just tried with a series of shots on a blank ceiling and haven't been able to recreate the center line issue with my M10m; seems again to not consistently show up in similar shooting conditions. I'll keep my camera set up with DNG+JPG (set to high con) just in case I see the issue again. If anyone can do the similar, capture the issue and report their jpg findings in PS that would be great. 

 

 

 

.

Have you adjusted contrast? You typically do not see it on the RAW file. 

[RMF]

 

11 hours ago, jplomley said:

Have you adjusted contrast? You typically do not see it on the RAW file. 

Shot a few more tests and took my Jpgs (captured large with high contrast) straight from camera into PS,  adjusted ‘contrast’ to the extreme on multiple files taken at various exposures and they all still looked clean without vertical line artifacts.  Subject was a blank wall, neutral color, slight gradated light falling on it, wall has a slight texture to it (typical American light dry wall texture).

Edited June 21, 2021 by RMF

[radialMelt]

@RMFIt would be valuable for you to try the same test at varying ISOs as well.

[RMF]

2 hours ago, radialMelt said:

@RMFIt would be valuable for you to try the same test at varying ISOs as well.

@radialMelt Yes, just recreated my previous test but this time added varying ISOs as requested; I'm still unable to repro the center line issue on my M10m (from Dec 2019) in JPGs or DNGs in PS or LR.  What this test did do/show was to reaffirm to me how amazing this camera really is with its incredible amount of latitude in the photographs it captures.  

 

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Edited June 22, 2021 by RMF

[hdmesa]

Although I've not heard back an official response to the sensor bifurcation issue from Leica USA & Germany (via Leica Miami), I'm taking a second try at the M10M (Leitz Wetzler this time, just to have the script), which should arrive tomorrow. Will report if it has the same issue as my last M10M I returned. As long as the issue is not worse than that last body, I'll keep it. I think my philosophy on dramatic, dark skies will have to rely on days with a truly clear, deep blue sky rather than trying to post-process an average sky to look as such. Even with a deep red filter, an average blue sky does not render a black sky on a monochrome sensor without a lot of work in post.

Edited July 13, 2021 by hdmesa

[jaapv]

Stacking an IR-UV cut filter(486) on top of the red filter will help.

[kyotalk]

My Leitz Wetzler M10M purchased earlier this year shows the issue. (contrast +100, dehaze +100 to make this as observable as possible) Although hardly anyone will PP in such extreme, I would still say this is an unacceptable sensor flaw. I hope people at Leica shout out this can be fixed before they delve into the issue so that they can restore confidence and I do not have to go though the complaint procedure with my dealer. (Not as obvious, but the region below the circled area still shows the division. Refer to the navigator panel on the left to get the idea of magnified area. Lens used: Summaron 28mm)

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Edited July 13, 2021 by kyotalk

[RMF]

Thanks for posting that one @kyotalk That’s a good example on what I have encountered as well; if like my example, it was perceivable on my 5k screen long before your LR setting of 100 contrast or dehaze.  @hdmesa Looking forward to hearing an update from Leica Miami/ Leica Germany/Leica USA on this one.

[kyotalk]

1 hour ago, RMF said:

Thanks for posting that one @kyotalk That’s a good example on what I have encountered as well; if like my example, it was perceivable on my 5k screen long before your LR setting of 100 contrast or dehaze.  @hdmesa Looking forward to hearing an update from Leica Miami/ Leica Germany/Leica USA on this one.

Never really noticed this anomaly before because I prefer moderation when it comes to PP like many other users here. On the contrary and shockingly enough, I could reproduce the artifact on my first try. Although I may not have recognized the sensor flaw had it not been spotted by others first, I think it is hard to remain a happy owner of M10M knowing that the ugly artifact will show up if I try to see it.

 

So my disheartened warning to other happy owners: do not try this at home; you will regret. The artifact is not artistic (read “outright ugly”) like some old-lens effects, and your M10M won’t appreciate in value.

Edited July 13, 2021 by kyotalk

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, RMF said:

Thanks for posting that one @kyotalk That’s a good example on what I have encountered as well; if like my example, it was perceivable on my 5k screen long before your LR setting of 100 contrast or dehaze.  @hdmesa Looking forward to hearing an update from Leica Miami/ Leica Germany/Leica USA on this one.

My M10M-LW arrived this morning, and I was surprised it has no sensor bifurcation artifact/line at all. I took the same kind of sky photos into Capture One and did +100 to Contrast, Dehaze, and Clarity – nothing – no line, no difference between halves. This one was manufactured April 2021.

Since some M10Ms have this and some don't (me, @Gobert and presumably others) it must be some variance in the manufacturing of the sensor or of the electronics (a voltage variance issue had been mentioned as a possibility, but I can't remember if that was here or on Fred Miranda).

Leica Miami did not hear back from Leica. I take that to assume Leica is not ready or willing to address the issue.

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Edited July 13, 2021 by hdmesa

[jplomley]

52 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

My M10M-LW arrived this morning, and I was surprised it has no sensor bifurcation artifact/line at all. I took the same kind of sky photos into Capture One and did +100 to Contrast, Dehaze, and Clarity – nothing – no line, no difference between halves. This one was manufactured April 2021.

Since some M10Ms have this and some don't (me, @Gobert and presumably others) it must be some variance in the manufacturing of the sensor or of the electronics (a voltage variance issue had been mentioned as a possibility, but I can't remember if that was here or on Fred Miranda).

Leica Miami did not hear back from Leica. I take that to assume Leica is not ready or willing to address the issue.

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Already posted many posts back the response I received from Germany. That is not going to change and they will never own up to the fact there is a problem, the frequency of which I’m sure they are aware. 

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[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, jplomley said:

Already posted many posts back the response I received from Germany. That is not going to change and they will never own up to the fact there is a problem, the frequency of which I’m sure they are aware. 

Yes, we heard you. Don't take it out on me like I'm some sort of child that didn't understand. The outcome of my inquiry was actually worse – no response to one of their flagship US stores. Everyone with the issue needs to contact Leica support, not hang on the fact that you – one person – got an unsatisfactory response.

Edited July 13, 2021 by hdmesa