Really, new cheap(er) film M in 2021 ?

[ianman]

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4 minutes ago, Rupert Greenwell said:

the younger  generation who have a interest in film but not the means to buy a M new or secondhand.

They could get a secondhand FM2 or something similar for peanuts.

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[Charles Morgan]

9 minutes ago, ianman said:

They could get a secondhand FM2 or something similar for peanuts.

Exactly! I sold my beautiful black FM2n for £275, which exposure system is so similar to the M6 and glass for which is plentiful and inexpensive. A masters photography student friend shoots film with a Chinon Memotron and Vivitar glass, rather well.  Leica is a wonderful maker of cameras, but its cost structure means cheap is never an option, especially now. 

[a.noctilux]

@Rupert Greenwell

do you use the Minilux by now ?

No "E02" like one of mine, the other one has no trouble.

When I look through the tiny VF of Minilux, I wonder how these could sell (comparing to M, of course).

In my view, japanese made cheaper Leica would not become true, in Japan labor cost has increased so much.

 

Out of topic, SLR are plenty in sh market, I see these OM1 to 4, Nikon AF or not, Canon, Minolta, etc.

In my view as user of those, none gives RF experience.

 

Maybe the closest 'experience' would be fixed lens RF/scale focus like Canonet, Olympus SP, XA, and so many.

[Rupert Greenwell]

Very true, there are many affordable film cameras. What I was thinking about is an affordable camera with the red dot on it as an  introduction to the Leica range.  I see that the M6 has quite a following which has put it's value right up .  For me I had a Olympus Om camera in the 1980's but aspired to own a Leica.The M was out of reach but I could afford the  Minilux. which I used very successfully as a point and shoot so the viewfinder experience was not that important . The Minilux  died  after several years, I think that it just ceased to function and was not worth repairing.. I had now bought a used M6.

[RayD28]

1 hour ago, Rupert Greenwell said:

For me I had a Olympus Om camera in the 1980's but aspired to own a Leica.The M was out of reach but I could afford the  Minilux. which I used very successfully as a point and shoot so the viewfinder experience was not that important . The Minilux  died  after several years, I think that it just ceased to function and was not worth repairing.. I had now bought a used M6.

My first camera was an OM-2.  Small, light, but sturdy and reliable.  Plus split image focus.  A film M was a natural transition.  

[logan2z]

4 hours ago, ianman said:

They could get a secondhand FM2 or something similar for peanuts.

The lenses are dirt cheap too.

[a.noctilux]

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FM ...

Some years ago, in a photo fair near Paris, I bought from a user what was a Leica cap price 20€, guess what ...

completely functioning Black Paint Nikon FM and Nikkor non-AI 2/50 my first user Nikon and the cap which the hefty price was written on... 😵

I was hooked, then purchased when possible some more Nikon bodies and Nikkor lenses at very affordable prices for years after that.

 

I have now F/F2/FM2/FM for hardly one Leica M price 😊.

 

...

Sorry to say this ...

 

However those are hardly Leica M, in use 😔.

[Toby Madrigal]

The M-A already satisfies this section of the Leica M market. There are enough used models on sale to give purchasers a very wide selection of models - M3/2/1/D/4/Da/5/4-2/4-P/D-2/6/7/MP/M-A plus the numerous digital ones.

Want an M1? Peter Loy in London has one. Want an M3 ? Ffordes of Inverness have one. Want an M2 painted black? West Yorkshire cameras in Leeds have one for £2000. 
 

Despite digital, film never went away. I use XP2 almost exclusively in my pair of M3 and two R8 bodies. As many opine, as is often the case, a cheap Leica is simply not on. The Bessa range came close, Roger Hicks used them. As for digital, the Fuji Finepix 100 is a good digital Leica clone - I have one and it’s good for parties etc. 

[Anbaric]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:01 AM, ianman said:

They could get a secondhand FM2 or something similar for peanuts.

You can buy a complete classic Nikon system for the price of a Summicron 50. An FM is about 5% of the price of an M6, a similarly specified camera in many ways. An FM2n, maybe 10%. There are some decent Nikon lenses for less than the price of a new Leica UV filter. For a bit more, you can buy something like the 105/2.5, a lens that needs no special pleading compared to Leica 90mm options from the same era, or the excellent 55 Micro. But of course FMs aren't rangefinders...

Leica's definition of 'cheap' would probably something like '10-20% less than the MP'. Call it an M6, use the the modern style wind-on lever and rewind crank, and unashamedly label it 'made in Portugal' to protect the premium mystique of the 'German' cameras, and they might shift a few.

[Helge]

The change of the rewind would make it rather a little more expensive than cheaper.

To get a cheaper film M they have to remove features instead of adding some.

An M-A is already almost at the bottom of removed features, so removing the RF seems to be the only way getting it even cheaper, everything else results in the same price or even more.

[Anbaric]

5 hours ago, Helge said:

The change of the rewind would make it rather a little more expensive than cheaper.

To get a cheaper film M they have to remove features instead of adding some.

An M-A is already almost at the bottom of removed features, so removing the RF seems to be the only way getting it even cheaper, everything else results in the same price or even more.

I don't think the price that a Leica is sold for has much to do with the cost of components like the rewind crank. Selling a revived M6 at a lower price, if they chose to do so, would be all about product differentiation, just as the 'Made in Portugal' lenses are sold for less than the nominally 'Made in Germany' equivalents (a tactic they might use again here). It's sort of an excuse to sell something at a somewhat lower price, trading a slightly lower profit margin for increased sales, without affecting the premium on your flagship product. I don't think there's much of a market for a non-RF Leica film body these days, so that really wouldn't be an option.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Anbaric

[IkarusJohn]

What “Made in Portugal” lenses are there, and which ones are cheaper than “Made in Germany” lenses?

I have lenses marked made in Canada, Germany and Japan, and as they are for different focal lengths, I haven’t made a comparison on prices as prices are different anyway … haven’t seen a “Made in Portugal” lens …

[Anbaric]

12 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

What “Made in Portugal” lenses are there, and which ones are cheaper than “Made in Germany” lenses?

I have lenses marked made in Canada, Germany and Japan, and as they are for different focal lengths, I haven’t made a comparison on prices as prices are different anyway … haven’t seen a “Made in Portugal” lens …

They've been selling them in the US, mainly because it allows them to avoid tariffs imposed on German lenses by Trump. They are apparently identical to the German lenses. To what extent lens production already happens in Portugal before the product is finished and anointed as German in Wetzlar is another question...

https://leicarumors.com/2020/08/26/just-released-nine-leica-m-mount-lenses-made-in-portugal-with-new-lower-pricing.aspx/

[logan2z]

56 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

What “Made in Portugal” lenses are there, and which ones are cheaper than “Made in Germany” lenses?

I have lenses marked made in Canada, Germany and Japan, and as they are for different focal lengths, I haven’t made a comparison on prices as prices are different anyway … haven’t seen a “Made in Portugal” lens …

All 'Made in Portugal' lenses are cheaper than 'Made in Germany' lenses.  As an example, the 50mm Summicron is $200 cheaper if it's labelled 'Made in Portugal'

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=leica summicron-m 50mm f%2F2 lens&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

[frakaphoto]

fraka, France.  Owning two M-A and one M7 .

Continuing the M familly.

As perfect as my M-A is, I understand that these parts and the assembly start to be a complicated matter for engineer in Portugal and Germany.

It is complex, costly , and not so effective on an industrial point of view.

Leica IS perfection, and the next film body WILL BE if it exist.

But it is time, like rolex or Porsche did, to upgrade the engine, for a nicer, better, more efficient one ( for customer) and more XXI century factory efficient line.

It will be base on the rangefinder existing because they are manufactured for digital at big number… but all these gear, screw, spring, rubber cloth and complex assembly could be replace by far more efficient, durable and easier  modern parts.

keep the form factor and you have a winner.

mode A, electronic shutter of course.

Price ? We know already, but durable , super high quality, M mount, and running for the next 20 years.

So an M7 with a new engine below the top plate. Point ! 

[FrozenInTime]

Would it 'make a legend' if the rumoured low cost film camera, was a Barnack ?

A non-rangefinder Leica I continuation model would work well with a 28mm Summaron and possible future classic reproductions like a 35/2.8 or even the Anastigmat from the 0-series replica. A little mechanical creativity and it could hide a M bayonet underneath the LTM adapter ring.

[a.noctilux]

This 2021 would not give us this cheap film M Leica.

Never mind, I have more than I need in film Ms.

 

I wonder if this will come one day, next year or never ?

[Ernest]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:22 PM, FrozenInTime said:

Would it 'make a legend' if the rumoured low cost film camera, was a Barnack ?

A non-rangefinder Leica I continuation model would work well with a 28mm Summaron and possible future classic reproductions like a 35/2.8 or even the Anastigmat from the 0-series replica. A little mechanical creativity and it could hide a M bayonet underneath the LTM adapter ring.

I grew impatient on the list waiting for an MP and found an MDa body in the meantime that I could marry to my Summaron-M and SLOOZ, giving me a Spartan point-and-shoot M with Portra 800 at f/11-f/16. The top plate is like an M6J, but the MDa is about $10,000 "cheaper." The "blind Leica" is still a very thrifty M that I can also use with my Summicron-M 35 + SBLOO finder, though I haven't gone that far. P.S. Leica Store Miami finally came through, and I got my MP black paint.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[andym91]

With so many excellent used Leica M in the market I seriously doubt any engagement from Leica on this topic.