Brand New APO 75mm with Visible Cracks

[Ecar]

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My 2003 copy has a piece of felt-like black rubber material glued to the "cracking ring". Perhaps to prevent said ring from disintegrating (I'm pretty sure there are a couple of cracks visible on the edges)?

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[MrFriendly]

10 minutes ago, Ecar said:

My 2003 copy has a piece of felt-like black rubber material glued to the "cracking ring". Perhaps to prevent said ring from disintegrating (I'm pretty sure there are a couple of cracks visible on the edges)?

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for sharing.  I don't see any visible cracks in yours, but mine definitely doesn't have the "felt-like" stuff you're talking about.

I wanna know if Leica still uses this black Palpa stuff.  I'm not an optical engineer, but why couldn't they just use the black/dark metal they use on the inner rings inside of the lens?  Or maybe even a black painted glass ring, just like how they paint the edges of the lens.

[lct]

2 hours ago, Ecar said:

My 2003 copy has a piece of felt-like black rubber material glued to the "cracking ring". Perhaps to prevent said ring from disintegrating (I'm pretty sure there are a couple of cracks visible on the edges)?

Mine from 2006 does't exhibit any crack but it is the rubber tape which is cracking, not the ring itself apparently. Could be an easy fix then. 

[wda]

I find it extraordinary and unacceptable that a precision lens should have any  material capable of natural degradation within its body. I do not believe it is load-bearing or plays an integral part in the mechanical operation of the lens. It seems to be an annular closure, preventing dust and debris entering the internal space and settling on optical surfaces. For that reason, it needs to be made of durable material, incapable of progressive deterioration. I would like to know what is Leica's reaction to the faults reported in this thread and their views on remedial action.

After-thought

I think the coating is a form reflection-suppression which is more usually a matte black paint. An initial coating typically lasts for the life of the lens or until it enters an optical workshop for repair. The material used in the case of this Summicron might have been an historical departure. It should never have appeared sealed in a box, as new, in this degraded form.

Edited January 1, 2021 by wda

[mmradman]

Maybe lens designer was a fan of Star Wars...

 

 

[MrFriendly]

55 minutes ago, wda said:

After-thought

I think the coating is a form reflection-suppression which is more usually a matte black paint. An initial coating typically lasts for the life of the lens or until it enters an optical workshop for repair. The material used in the case of this Summicron might have been an historical departure. It should never have appeared sealed in a box, as new, in this degraded form.

+1.

According to this page, the current APO-Summicron-M 75mm (11637) has been in production since 2005.  @a.noctilux could you please verify that your wife's copy is 11637 or not?

The 11701 special edition was introduced in 2020, so maybe that one doesn't use that coating material?

I don't see pre-2005 on that list.

[a.noctilux]

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I just had a look at the lens body, under the LENS MADE IN GERMANY,

11637

when I wanted to look close at the material, I rub my digit on it, it's sticky...

after cleaning with soft cloth, the sticky feel desappeared.

 

Had a look at same rear parts of my Summilux-M 75 (11815), just metallic striated "rings" to trap flare (no rubber/Palpa on them)

[lct]

1 hour ago, MrFriendly said:

According to this page, the current APO-Summicron-M 75mm (11637) has been in production since 2005.

Yes it's been introduced in March 2005 and was available in May 2005. See:

LeicaM_7520.pdf

Edited January 1, 2021 by lct

[Anbaric]

It seems a bizarre decision to include stuff that might degrade like this in a lens that sells for £3300. Even if this lens were from the first production, the lubricants would normally not need to be replaced, let alone alone a structural material that could get into the shutter or contaminate the sensor. Perhaps Leica should ask 7Artisans for advice on using more durable materials? 😲

[MrFriendly]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Yes it's been introduced in January 2005 and was available in May 2005. See:

LeicaM_7520.pdf 283.46 kB · 0 downloads

It says:

Quote

Only high-quality materials, such as brass, aluminium and optical glass are good enough for Leica

They don't talk about Palpas (or whatever that stuff is).

[lct]

Had to be rubberized to protect the floating elements i suspect. Just a guess though.

[adan]

14 minutes ago, MrFriendly said:

They don't talk about Palpas (or whatever that stuff is).

Nor did Leica talk much about the foam-rubber light seals in the R-series cameras (which tend to turn into goo after several decades). Nor the waxed-string seals in the Leicaflexes (which have usually lasted longer).

Nor the plastic internal rings in some 1980s M lenses (lct's pet peeve ).

Nor (until it revealed itself) the corrosion-prone glass that covers M9/Monochrom CCD sensors.

Which for some reason has never affected the CCD M8 sensors - but they leak infrared light, and Leica didn't mention that until people began asking why every M8 wedding picture was producing purple tuxedos. Even the beta-testers did not catch that little - characteristic.

Leica does at least mention the rubberized-cloth shutter curtains in film Ms (constructed on a sewing machine) - which are prone to burn-holes if left facing the sun with an uncapped lens.

The longer one uses Leicas, the more obvious it becomes that the high prices buy many unique things - but "perfection" is not one of them.

Or in other words, drink the Leica "Kool-Aid™" in small doses.

Nevertheless, a "pre-aged" part should not appear in a new lens or camera. Unless of course it happens to be the Lenny Kravitz "Correspondent" edition.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/02/leica-announces-leica-m-p-correspondent-by-lenny-kravitz/

[a.noctilux]

Ah Leica's famous QC , old story always true 🦄

seen this thread

 

As user, I don't need "perfect gear" (for me perfection can not exist),

so I accept some minor flaws when those flaws are not in my way of using it.

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by a.noctilux

[farnz]

It's comforting though that Leica gets the 'big' stuff like lens computations, lens elements, and lens coatings right.  If they weren't getting that right then I'd be concerned.  Yes, it all needs to be right for sure but a bit of perspective helps I think (apologies for the unintended pun).

Pete.

[Ecar]

7 hours ago, Ecar said:

My 2003 copy has a piece of felt-like black rubber material glued to the "cracking ring". Perhaps to prevent said ring from disintegrating (I'm pretty sure there are a couple of cracks visible on the edges)?

 

2 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

+1.

According to this page, the current APO-Summicron-M 75mm (11637) has been in production since 2005.  @a.noctilux could you please verify that your wife's copy is 11637 or not?

The 11701 special edition was introduced in 2020, so maybe that one doesn't use that coating material?

I don't see pre-2005 on that list.

You are absolutely correct. I went by memory and made a mistake. My copy is from 2006, not 2003. 

[Gobert]

I’ve checked mine, and it looks fine.

but while checking, I found out that the front part, where you screw a filter in (and may be locking the front lens) can be easy screwed out. Is that normal?

Edited January 1, 2021 by Gobert

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, adan said:

Nor did Leica talk much about the foam-rubber light seals in the R-series cameras (which tend to turn into goo after several decades). Nor the waxed-string seals in the Leicaflexes (which have usually lasted longer).

Nor the plastic internal rings in some 1980s M lenses (lct's pet peeve ).

Nor (until it revealed itself) the corrosion-prone glass that covers M9/Monochrom CCD sensors.

Which for some reason has never affected the CCD M8 sensors - but they leak infrared light, and Leica didn't mention that until people began asking why every M8 wedding picture was producing purple tuxedos. Even the beta-testers did not catch that little - characteristic.

Leica does at least mention the rubberized-cloth shutter curtains in film Ms (constructed on a sewing machine) - which are prone to burn-holes if left facing the sun with an uncapped lens.

The longer one uses Leicas, the more obvious it becomes that the high prices buy many unique things - but "perfection" is not one of them.

Or in other words, drink the Leica "Kool-Aid™" in small doses.

Nevertheless, a "pre-aged" part should not appear in a new lens or camera. Unless of course it happens to be the Lenny Kravitz "Correspondent" edition.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/02/leica-announces-leica-m-p-correspondent-by-lenny-kravitz/

Nor recognition and response to the yellow stains on M8 rear screens until the forum erupted. (Leica execs eventually posted a rare apology and explanation right here on the forum.)  Nor to the plastic parts that caused failures in S lens AF motors, until enough folks got vocal. (Still no public explanation from the company about cause or specific fix, despite repair policy.) The M customer base seems to drive more direct company communications than for the smaller S base, but usually only after much prompting.  

Jeff
 

 

[MrFriendly]

2 hours ago, adan said:

The longer one uses Leicas, the more obvious it becomes that the high prices buy many unique things - but "perfection" is not one of them.

I don't know if anyone is looking for perfection, but Leica is a premium brand, and we are paying for "quality" I suppose.

The Palpas issue in the Summicron 75 could be worse because of potential collateral damage to the camera, don't you think?  From my experience in the last couple days, when that stuff crumbles, it can either be sticky because it's greasy, or it can also be dry, almost like powder.  I had the greasy kind land all over the rear element of the lens when I touched it the first time, and cleaning it wasn't easy because you can't just blow it off; it sticks and becomes difficult to clean it.

The powder kind is what worries me, because I have no idea if any of it got in the camera.  I spent the entire day shooting it with my brand new M10M that I had just received couple days ago, before I noticed the cracks.  How do I know that stuff isn't in there?  How do I know it won't cause shutter failure, or some other mechanical failure a few months or couple years down the line?

I got a used M246M about four months ago (my first Leica).  Couple weeks ago the range-finder roller disc (orwhatever it's called) started failing; it would get stuck and it sounded like metal was rubbing against metal everytime it did move (not enough lubrication?).  Maybe the previous owner used a Summicron 75 that had the same problem; the disc and the roller are millimetres away from each other.  Could enough Palpas particles get dislodged overtime to cause mechanical issues like that?  I don't know.  That's the thing, I don't know.

And finally, toxicity.  Is Palpas toxic?  I can't seem to find anything about it online.  With the lens only inches away from my face, and the way this large lens breaths, I worry :-).

Oh, then there was the freezing issues I was having couple months ago, which I finally gave up and accepted it as part of the deal.

Just too many issues in only four months.

[Guest]

Sorry to ask: did page 2 of this thread start very shortly before or after New Year‘s Eve midnight your local time?

Edited January 1, 2021 by tri

[farnz]

5 minutes ago, tri said:

Sorry to ask: did page 2 of this thread started very shortly before or after New Year‘s Eve midnight your local time?

Hi Simon,

It looks like my post is the first on page two and the time stamp just says 31 December so I must have posted it just before midnight GMT but I don't remember the exact time I'm afraid.  Is the exact time important?

Pete.

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