A New Year Wish for the M System

[Jeff S]

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6 hours ago, fisheess said:

Thanks for the quote. This is a informative read.

From an engineering standpoint, the interview made a lot of sense. I think here in the forum many users without an engineering background can't see the limitations (and wish for too much. Don't hit me please😆) for the design of an M camera.

For everything we hope for in this thread, let's just hope a little bit more that Leica's engineering capability has improved over the years (a lot).

Just noticed my comment should have read ‘UNacceptable compromises’ to both RF and EVF.  In any case, time and technology marches on.

Jeff

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[adan]

53 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

In any case, time and technology marches on.

Indeed.

I've posted snaps of this sculpture in our gallery in other contexts, but it seems appropriate here also.

It is titled Smart Phone - 1986.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And indeed it includes most of today's features: clock, video, still photos, screen playback, tunes, texting keyboard, pass code entry pad, secure banking, wireless connectivity, flash and continuous light sources, headset. And of course a telephone (with speaker capability) - and a way to pay for service.

I think it is Leica's intentional goal to maintain the M as a 1986 M6 - that just happens to produce digital images. And that the only thing that will change their minds is an actual majority of potential buyers (not just a handful of loud and repetitive voices on the Internet) who desire a "do everything, every way, multifunction" M camera.

It should be remembered that Leica has its own place in the world's art archive - a Leica M3 in the Architecture and Design collection of the Museum of Modern Art in NYC.

It does not have an EVF.

[tobey bilek]

I want a RELIABLE camera, nothing fancy.  No new batteries. Rather than fast new models ,  I want a simple camera that does what it is supposed to do, you know focus, shutter, aperture.

M9 is the biggest disappointment ever.  No corrosion yet,  so they would not fix when parts were available.  $7000 paperweight someday.

They should replace the camera, not give a discount on a new one.

Love my M10 and M8 even.  24MP is fine.

[NigelG]

12 minutes ago, adan said:

It should be remembered that Leica has its own place in the world's art archive - a Leica M3 in the Architecture and Design collection of the Museum of Modern Art in NYC.

Yes but they've got a Canon PowerShot S110 as well. Just sayin' 😉

(Plus an Apple Quicktake 100 like the one in my drawer - my first digital camera)

Edited February 24, 2021 by NigelG

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Indeed.

I've posted snaps of this sculpture in our gallery in other contexts, but it seems appropriate here also.

It is titled Smart Phone - 1986.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And indeed it includes most of today's features: clock, video, still photos, screen playback, tunes, texting keyboard, pass code entry pad, secure banking, wireless connectivity, flash and continuous light sources, headset. And of course a telephone (with speaker capability) - and a way to pay for service.

I think it is Leica's intentional goal to maintain the M as a 1986 M6 - that just happens to produce digital images. And that the only thing that will change their minds is an actual majority of potential buyers (not just a handful of loud and repetitive voices on the Internet) who desire a "do everything, every way, multifunction" M camera.

It should be remembered that Leica has its own place in the world's art archive - a Leica M3 in the Architecture and Design collection of the Museum of Modern Art in NYC.

It does not have an EVF.

And today’s smartphone is far more capable than the computer that got us to the moon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/would-your-mobile-phone-be-powerful-enough-to-get-you-to-the-moon-115933
 

Nevertheless, most are satisfied using their phone to take pics of their food. Better tech doesn’t always produce better results. 

Jeff

[mujk]

21 hours ago, pippy said:

I was thinking about how the near-perfect M-D Typ-262 might possibly be improved and there were two things (and I'm being perfectly serious here) which occurred to me with both ideas serving the same end-purpose and both, serendipitously, which would appeal to die-hard-stuck-in-the-mud-old-fogeys (such as myself)!

Although it has never once been an issue for me I can see how, in certain conditions (on a multi-day excursion in 'no-man's-land' for example), having a manually rechargeable battery could save the day.

So what I say is this; for the upcoming M11-D put the ISO dial back on the rear of the camera where it belongs! The ISO knob of the M10 series would revert to being a rewind-knob in terms of its design and, secondly, reinstate the central 'window' in its correct place on the front of the top-plate.

The twist (pun) of the first idea is that the 'rewind knob' will be part of a micro-electrical-generator-system (much like the wind-up radio / torch etc) which will be able to recharge the camera's battery! A few minutes cranking could be the difference between getting - or missing - a shot or three! As far as the 'window' is concerned it won't be used for frameline illumination but will be a mini-sized solar-panel! Just think; all those hours we spend strolling along the Promenade des Anglais might not be a complete waste of time after all and, instead, be excused as an ecologically-sound method of powering-up our Leicas!

It would also give Leica the chance to exploit offer-up some seriously cool re-issue opportunities! A canted rewind-knob such as found on the M4 etc. bodies would be the 'Standard Feature' and so would allow for the original diamond-faced style lift-up knob to be available to those fortunate to have very healthy coffers and with the added possibility of acquiring optional 'Limited-Edition' Rapid-Rewind Levers - and these latter can be a whole new range of accessories in their own right! Black Paint! Pitted-Chrome! Faux-Camouflage! Crushed Raspberry!...

"You Read it Here First!"

Philip.

EDIT : I've just realised that as the mini-solar-panel will be used for recharging the battery the central-window will after all, in fact, be responsible for frame-line illumination just as it always was in the past! How Trad-Mod-Retro-Cool is that?!

I like this idea!

And for those who want the same functionality on any digital M body there could be an accessory replacing the bottom plate and working like a rapidwinder. It would hold some extra battery capacity and a generator coupled to the rapidwind lever. With this you could shoot and charge at the same time.

[fotografr]

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4 hours ago, mujk said:

I like this idea!

And for those who want the same functionality on any digital M body there could be an accessory replacing the bottom plate and working like a rapidwinder. It would hold some extra battery capacity and a generator coupled to the rapidwind lever. With this you could shoot and charge at the same time.

You know, the sad thing about the way this thread has gone is I can't tell if you're joking. 😁

Edited February 24, 2021 by fotografr

[P1505]

Let’s just put the camera on legs and let it go off on it’s own and we just view the images it makes on Instagram.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

You know, the sad thing about the way this thread is gone is I can't tell if you're joking. 😁

"...the way this thread has gone..."......?

I'm not quite sure I understand your reasoning, fotografr............

My understanding is that the whole thread was started - two months ago - as a bit of a "Tongue-in-cheek-but-with-a-basic-truth-at-heart-message" post and so that 'joking' was always to be expected at least as a part of the resulting Meander. And so it has proven to be.

As far as mujk's particular post is concerned then why not? In fact I think it forms the basis of a great idea!

There are many members here (everywhere from the 'enthusiast' side of things through to the well-heeled connoiseur) who, understandably, lovingly display their period Leicavits adorning wondrous models from Leica's rich back catalogue. In the same way that the majority of semi-pro DSLRs have a baseplate-mounted 'Battery Grip' available(*) surely a 'Leicavit'-proportioned supplementary battery would be an absolute winner?

Interesting point. Who, here, thinks a Leicavit-style 'spare backup-battery baseplate' would be a great accessory? It wouldn't be an essential purchase in much the same way that a Leicavit wasn't an essential for film cameras but, personally, whenever I take out the M Monochrom (and the M8.2 and M9-P before it) I always carry two spare batteries. Clipping on a supplementary Batt-Pack 'Leicavit' wouldn't add much size nor mass to the camera and if the pack doubled (say) the possible shooting performance in terms of frame numbers then surely that would be an attractive idea?

Phiilp.

* I still use - and have always used - them on every mid-range DSLR which I've owned).

Edited February 25, 2021 by pippy

[graphlex]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:48 PM, graphlex said:

Can’t you do that on M10 with 020 by selecting a black and white jpeg profile?

Answer: Yes. 

This is done by selecting DNG plus jpeg, and then choosing monochrome as your DNG. 

[graphlex]

On 2/22/2021 at 9:49 AM, Steven said:

On some EVF you can! One more reason to hate the visoflex 020. 

This problem does not exist.  Just confirmed that with 020 on my M10-D. Check your settings in Fotos. 

[fotografr]

4 hours ago, pippy said:

"...the way this thread has gone..."......?

I'm not quite sure I understand your reasoning, fotografr............

 

My reasoning is that this thread has meandered all over there place with some comments on topic and some quite far off. Serious ideas have been floated but there's also been a fair amount of science fiction. 

At this point I'm trying to envision somebody shooting with an M camera while cranking away at a Leicavit type trigger attached to a mini generator on the bottom of the camera and I can't tell if it's a serious suggestion or a joke.

Why not just carry another extra battery? Are there a lot of people here who have shot through three fully charged batteries in one day with their M? 

Edited February 25, 2021 by fotografr

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

Are there a lot of people here who have shot through three fully charged batteries in one day with their M? 

I can't answer that. But my experience thought me a lot about the difference between having two and three batteries. 

I clearly remember the passing of the hours when I "tried" to shoot one edition of the Iron Man 🤦‍♂️ I used my M10 + the ZM 35/28 Biogon. I started around 5ish in the morning (an hour before sunrise), and my last picture was around 10am. I remember it well because I finished my (only) two fully charged batteries. 😂 If one wants to use the LV sometimes, OMG. It's an F$%^XC battery killer. The event was ended by 11pm. I would probably have had to use four full batteries. (and knowing, less LV). I'm always integrating more and more my M10 into my work, but I need more gear—especially spare batteries for extended storytelling coverages.

[mmradman]

28 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 

I can't answer that. But my experience thought me a lot about the difference between having two and three batteries. 

I clearly remember the passing of the hours when I "tried" to shoot one edition of the Iron Man 🤦‍♂️ I used my M10 + the ZM 35/28 Biogon. I started around 5ish in the morning (an hour before sunrise), and my last picture was around 10am. I remember it well because I finished my (only) two fully charged batteries. 😂 If one wants to use the LV sometimes, OMG. It's an F$%^XC battery killer. The event was ended by 11pm. I would probably have had to use four full batteries. (and knowing, less LV). I'm always integrating more and more my M10 into my work, but I need more gear—especially spare batteries for extended storytelling coverages.

My only comment is that limited number of batteries shouldn’t be the problem for scenario as described, using RF camera and 35mm lens can be well done without EVF, what was it EVF provided you couldn’t achieve with RF?  If you were using 10mm or 135mm lens I would not ask. 

[P1505]

Is the M10 battery that bad? Guess I’ll find out. On the M9 a battery would last me a month! I’d charge it because I felt guilty for not feeding it not because it was ever that low.

The Q would get through three batteries in a day easily. The SL maybe one.

[pippy]

4 hours ago, fotografr said:

My reasoning is that this thread has meandered all over there place with some comments on topic and some quite far off. Serious ideas have been floated but there's also been a fair amount of science fiction. 

At this point I'm trying to envision somebody shooting with an M camera while cranking away at a Leicavit type trigger attached to a mini generator on the bottom of the camera and I can't tell if it's a serious suggestion or a joke.

Why not just carry another extra battery? Are there a lot of people here who have shot through three fully charged batteries in one day with their M? 

I think a large number of ideas were floated at least partly tongue-in-cheek.

My own personal take on mujk's 'Leicavit' nomination would have seen the unit used exclusively as a supplementary battery-pack and filled accordingly with rechargeable cells thereby negating, for the majority of 'heavy-use' photographers, the need to carry a spare battery. As it happens I, myself, have needed to go to a third battery on the odd occasion when I've been away from mains power for a couple of days or not had the charger with me for some reason.

The 'rewind-knob mini-generator' was posted a bit of Sci-Fi but, then again, how many Sci-Fi ideas have ultimately seen fruition? Rockets to the moon? Boats which could navigate underwater? Pocket-sized communication devices? Portable computers?......

Philip.

Edited February 25, 2021 by pippy

[fisheess]

5 hours ago, Dennis said:

 

I can't answer that. But my experience thought me a lot about the difference between having two and three batteries. 

I clearly remember the passing of the hours when I "tried" to shoot one edition of the Iron Man 🤦‍♂️ I used my M10 + the ZM 35/28 Biogon. I started around 5ish in the morning (an hour before sunrise), and my last picture was around 10am. I remember it well because I finished my (only) two fully charged batteries. 😂 If one wants to use the LV sometimes, OMG. It's an F$%^XC battery killer. The event was ended by 11pm. I would probably have had to use four full batteries. (and knowing, less LV). I'm always integrating more and more my M10 into my work, but I need more gear—especially spare batteries for extended storytelling coverages.

The Leicavit battery pack seems a valid idea to me. 

For now the Nitecore ULM10 charger takes USB input. So you can shoot while one or two batteries are being charged with a normal battery pack in your bag.

Edited February 25, 2021 by fisheess

[dkmoore]

13 minutes ago, fisheess said:

The Leicavit battery pack seems a valid idea to me. 

For now the Nitecore ULM10 charger takes USB input. So you can shoot while one or two batteries are being charged with a normal battery pack in your bag.

+1. I think it’s a great idea as long as the baseplate is similar or only slightly larger than the accessory grip. I’m picturing the thickness of the GPS grip that came out for the M240. 
 

I would buy this. Maybe add a trap door to take out and put in the memory card. 

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Look here: Leica M

[fotografr]

Just announced: The optional M11 Battery Pack (does not include assistant).

I guess Leica really do pay attention to these threads.

 

 

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited February 25, 2021 by fotografr

[lucerne]

2 hours ago, fisheess said:

The Leicavit battery pack seems a valid idea to me. 

For now the Nitecore ULM10 charger takes USB input. So you can shoot while one or two batteries are being charged with a normal battery pack in your bag.

 

IN CASE ANYONE IS SERIOUS.....

And as some of us are aware, the Leicavit accessory is not a power pack.  (The Leicavit M Fast Winder is mounted in place of the base cover. It allows experienced photographers to shoot up to two frames per second).   It is a sequential shot device (mechanical)  for non electronic Leica camera bodies.   Nothing to do with power.

so...  first choose a new name for this new device. Leica doesnt recycle old names .   The Leicavit is still listed at the stores.

First, the xxxx would have dimensions to suit a particular body. M240, M10, etc. (not transferrable between camera models)

Second. the rechargeable cells would cost as much (or more) than current batteries. The holder would add cost to the device. 

Third.  the xxxx has to be able to connect to the circuitry of the camera.  No current Leica camera has external connection ports. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Suggestion for future bodies.  Provide connection port OR provide a dummy battery with cable to permit connection to the circuitry by an external power source. This is not a new idea and it has been implemented by other camera manufacturers.   In fact, it is likely that Leica have such a device in use at factory assembly and service locations.

Achieving connection to the camera electronics once the camera is assembled can be done this way or possibly via a concealed connector that may be hiding beneath a plate on the base. (very likely).

The xxxx device has the potential to cost up to $1000 (In the Leica world)

Cheaper to carry the overpriced and expensive Leica batteries and/or the Nitecore.

Leica could make our lives easier by arranging for sensibly priced batteries to be available in more cities worldwide.   I was caught short in a small place called Mexico City two years ago!  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by lucerne