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Are APO-Summicron-M 50mm's Prone to Calibration Issues?

Pixeleater

By Pixeleater
in Leica M Lenses

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AndreasG

AndreasG

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I bought an APO Summicron 2/50 used in 2019 and it needed recalibration at Leica/Wetzlar. It was definitely a lens issue and not a rangefinder problem, because all my further lenses delivered sharp images. The good thing is that the seller paid for the recalibration.

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jaeger

jaeger

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Notice Leica does not have refurbish program, and they don't destroy all the return defects.  They fix whatever reported and ship them out as NEW again so there are many M bodies are still have defects.   Lenses usually have less defects as far as I know but they make it worst when correcting it with the body together - which means Leica force a good lens to work with a bad body and it's how a good lens get screwed.

So, to avoid this happen again, NEVER send both lens and body for calibration, it's a lie!  Never believe people say "every new lens need calibration", it's a lie!  The rate of change in rangefinder is just a simple curve and it's not a any rocket science, it can be done individually and should match 99.999% between bodies and lenses. 

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Pixeleater

Pixeleater

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32 minutes ago, lct said:

What do you mean by calibration issues if i may ask. Does your lens exhibit front or back focusing? If so it is not usual AFAIK. I would make sure that the problem does not come from the rangefinder.

The lens in question is used and was recently repaired by Leica US: focusing repaired, focusing mount repaired, aperture ring fixed, washer adjusted, repaired all function. It was not an RF issue as my other 50's work fine with it. 

 

 
 
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18 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

I bought an APO Summicron 2/50 used in 2019 and it needed recalibration at Leica/Wetzlar. It was definitely a lens issue and not a rangefinder problem, because all my further lenses delivered sharp images. The good thing is that the seller paid for the recalibration.

Thanks for the replies. I was curious if this lens (owing to its engineering design) requires more calibration over time compared to other 50's? Assume the RF is fine and functioning properly. 

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jdlaing

jdlaing

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15 minutes ago, jaeger said:

Notice Leica does not have refurbish program, and they don't destroy all the return defects.  They fix whatever reported and ship them out as NEW 

No. They do not. A repaired camera is never sold as new.

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jdlaing

jdlaing

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Just now, jaeger said:

so where did the returned cameras go?

and why so many new cameras have problems?

Returned cameras are sold as demo. Not so many new cameras have problems as you think. Very few in proportion to sold.

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benqui

benqui

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I had to send it one time for a new calibration to the Customer Service, but it was my fault because my APO was falling on the floor (!!!!!!!!!!!!!). After this calibration (one year ago) it works without any problems and I use it a lot.

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Stephen.s1

Stephen.s1

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Leica Refurbished Program

 

For a limited period of time, the Customer Care department of Leica Camera AG in Wetzlar offers refurbished cameras.

Naturally, all cameras show different traces of use and shutter counts.

Each product has been thoroughly inspected by Leica technicians and is covered by a 12-month warranty, documented in the Leica Service Certificate.

You also have the option to choose from a wide selection of certified genuine leather to customize the camera to your personal preferences.

The stock of products is limited and the program is not always available. 

Please contact us: customer.care@leica-camera.com

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Jeff S

Jeff S

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20 minutes ago, jaeger said:

Notice Leica does not have refurbish program, and they don't destroy all the return defects.  They fix whatever reported and ship them out as NEW again so there are many M bodies are still have defects.   Lenses usually have less defects as far as I know but they make it worst when correcting it with the body together - which means Leica force a good lens to work with a bad body and it's how a good lens get screwed.

So, to avoid this happen again, NEVER send both lens and body for calibration, it's a lie!  Never believe people say "every new lens need calibration", it's a lie!  The rate of change in rangefinder is just a simple curve and it's not a any rocket science, it can be done individually and should match 99.999% between bodies and lenses. 

No, cameras and lenses are calibrated independently, each to specific standards and tolerances.  Leica commonly asks that lens(es) and camera are sent in jointly to avoid customer guesswork and to minimize need for back and forth repairs and shipments, especially in the digital realm, which requires close tolerances.

Jeff

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dkmoore

dkmoore

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20 hours ago, jaeger said:

Notice Leica does not have refurbish program, and they don't destroy all the return defects.  They fix whatever reported and ship them out as NEW again so there are many M bodies are still have defects.   Lenses usually have less defects as far as I know but they make it worst when correcting it with the body together - which means Leica force a good lens to work with a bad body and it's how a good lens get screwed.

So, to avoid this happen again, NEVER send both lens and body for calibration, it's a lie!  Never believe people say "every new lens need calibration", it's a lie!  The rate of change in rangefinder is just a simple curve and it's not a any rocket science, it can be done individually and should match 99.999% between bodies and lenses. 

FACT. 

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dkmoore

dkmoore

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20 hours ago, Jeff S said:

No, cameras and lenses are calibrated independently, each to specific standards and tolerances.  Leica commonly asks that lens(es) and camera are sent in jointly to avoid customer guesswork and to minimize need for back and forth repairs and shipments, especially in the digital realm, which requires close tolerances.

Jeff

I talk with the Leica technicians fairly frequently in New Jersey and they are all calibrated to independent standards with their new testing and calibrating equipment. They "will" calibrate a lens and camera together "if" you only use one lens.

They also do not recommend people send in their cameras and lenses together because their equipment was upgraded a year or two ago and is far more accurate when adjusting to Leica standards. They also have a backlog, which likely plays a part in not wanting us to send a camera body and four lenses in, for example.

I agree with your point also that a large group of Leica users are not able to determine the culprit of misalignment. Unfortunately I am OCD to the hilt and can very easily tell at this point. 

( I agree with you would have been a shorter answer!)

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Jeff S

Jeff S

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5 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

I talk with the Leica technicians fairly frequently in New Jersey and they are all calibrated to independent standards with their new testing and calibrating equipment. They "will" calibrate a lens and camera together "if" you only use one lens.

They also do not recommend people send in their cameras and lenses together because their equipment was upgraded a year or two ago and is far more accurate when adjusting to Leica standards. They also have a backlog, which likely plays a part in not wanting us to send a camera body and four lenses in, for example.

I agree with your point though that a large group of Leica users are not able to determine the culprit of misalignment. Unfortunately I am OCD to the hilt and can very easily tell at this point. 

That’s consistent with past practice, except that they’re probably tired of getting ripped for delays, backlogs and service issues, and would rather spread the pain.

Regarding testing and equipment, Sherry Krauter (a respected Leica tech in your neck of the woods... NJ), will work on lenses but refuses to work on digital bodies due in large part to the prohibitive cost of required calibration equipment.  

Jeff

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  • 2 weeks later...
budjames

budjames

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I purchased a black APO Summicron 50mm new from Ken Hansen in January 2019. I use the lens occasionally as I also own the Summilux 50mm.

The front of the lens came loose so I had to send it to the Leica service center in NJ in February 2020 to have it fixed under warranty. I got the lens back in about 2 weeks. I have not had any issues since. I presume that they calibrated the lens while fixing the looseness. 

It is one of my favorite lenses. This lens along with the Summilux 35mm are my goto lenses for travel with my M10-R.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto

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MrFriendly

MrFriendly

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On 12/21/2020 at 11:36 AM, jaeger said:

Notice Leica does not have refurbish program, and they don't destroy all the return defects.  They fix whatever reported and ship them out as NEW again so there are many M bodies are still have defects.

If what you say is true, then why on earth pay for new Leica gear?  I could have bought all my M lenses used at half the price or less, and saved myself thousands of dollars.

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