Can we expect an updated lens road map from Leica

[Simone_DF]

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2 hours ago, Steven said:

We will get the 28 Summicron in the second half of 2021. 

We should not expect the 21/24 crons in 2021. Paused for now. 

I don't get the choice of pushing the 28 first. For that price you can buy a Q2, which is roughly the same weight/size as the Crons, and as a bonus they share even the battery.

A wider lens would be better, imho

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[RBB]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

Just got confirmation of the info I gave yesterday. 

The next announcement will be in early 2021, it will be a 28-70 zoom with a constant aperture of 2.8. Smaller size than the 24-90 as well. 

We will get the 28 Summicron in the second half of 2021. 

We should not expect the 21/24 crons in 2021. Paused for now. 

Great!

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

I had a brief experience with the Canon RF 28-70 and I loved it. It's the most popular focal length: 28 - 35 - 50 and it also gives you quite a good reach at 70mm if you compare it to 28mm. If you get prime quality like on the RF and a constant aperture, it's worth the reach sacrifice in my opinion. On a video camera like the SL2S, the constant aperture is great and the APSC mode in video will make it a 28 -140. If on top of that its half the size of a 24-90, sounds like an all time best seller to me. Im really surprised too that its not obvious to a lot of people. 

I’ve commented before about my wish for a set of smaller SL zooms with more restricted focal lengths, including one around 28-70 (with non-telescoping zoom).  Now all they need to do is complete the trio with 70-150-ish and another around 18/21-28. Tell your source to get to work. 😊

Jeff

Edited December 17, 2020 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, Steven said:

A little more than a month to wait and your wish (and mine) will come true. 

Do you know if it will have internal zoom?

Jeff

[Slender]

70 x 1.5 is 105 in aps-c... but more than good enough . Surprised Leica worked on this without anybody noticing/anticipating/ leave it out of the roadmap.... will it be made in japan like the summicron Cine lenses and many cool R zooms of the past?

Arguably the 21 f2 with L-mount standarts of results will be the most challenging lens to make in the line-up yet.

As someone else said earlier, it would be my pick above the utterly utterly useless 75 f1.2M and 90 1.5M... but heh, those chinese folks who buy those and other limited edition of albinos crocodile leather M cameras make the SL2s at this price a reality...

Edited December 17, 2020 by Slender

[nicci78]

5 hours ago, dsalamena said:

When I need something small and light for a walk I just use the TL 18-55 which offers the equivalent of a 28-70 but in an really small package. 

I think that it would be nice to have an excellent middle ground between huge full frame 24-90mm f/2.8-4.0 and small but APS-C 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 = 28-85mm f/5.0-8.0 equivalent light flux. With only 10MP (SL2-S) or 20MP (SL2) 
 

So reasonably sized full frame 28-70mm f/2.8 would be awesome. 

[Simone_DF]

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

An SL with a 28 cron, is not the same thing as a Q2, nor the same thing as an M with a 28 cron/lux. Different segment, to be treated separately. 28 is more popular FL than 24 or 21. And a preferred Leica FL as history showed us. 

You are right, in particular for video. But for stills, I don't find the difference that big between the Q and the SL. The Q2 and the SL2 even share the same sensors. Considering size, weight, cost, and even rendering, I'd buy a Q2 over the SL 28mm Summicron any day.

[BernardC]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:23 AM, Steven said:

With all due respect, this is in my opinion completely wrong. On the contrary: the announcement of an SL2-S makes a 24-70 2.8 even more relevant. You see, while the 24-90 is an excellent lens for stills, a variable aperture is not ideal for video, despite the implementation of floating ISO. With the SL2S aimed at videographer and cinematographer, a zoom lens with constant aperture makes more sense than ever. 

Question 1: will this lens provide acceptable manual focus? As far as I am concerned, the SL lenses are useless for video because there is no way to focus them with any sort of accuracy or consistency. AF is useful for some things, like slow dolly moves, but for almost everything else it's a signifier, the same way that on-camera-flash is used to signify "snapshot", or camera shake is used to signify "documentary/first person."

I have seen AF used to signify two looks: the vlog look, where people talk to the camera, and occasionally hold something up-close to the lens, waiting for the AF to catch-up; and the "diegetic camera," where a character is holding a camera or phone, and we cut to that footage. In the second case, film-makers often de-saturate, and add noise, to complete the visual effect. It is similar to books that switch from third-person to first-person narration.

I am not trying to disparage these looks, just to put them in context. You certainly can't argue with success: most YouTube content uses one or both versions of the AF look, and it will be a formative visual signature for generations of viewers.

I would be interested in knowing if I've missed another major visual signature that takes advantage AF.

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Question 1: will this lens provide acceptable manual focus? As far as I am concerned, the SL lenses are useless for video because there is no way to focus them with any sort of accuracy or consistency. AF is useful for some things, like slow dolly moves, but for almost everything else it's a signifier, the same way that on-camera-flash is used to signify "snapshot", or camera shake is used to signify "documentary/first person."

I have seen AF used to signify two looks: the vlog look, where people talk to the camera, and occasionally hold something up-close to the lens, waiting for the AF to catch-up; and the "diegetic camera," where a character is holding a camera or phone, and we cut to that footage. In the second case, film-makers often de-saturate, and add noise, to complete the visual effect. It is similar to books that switch from third-person to first-person narration.

I am not trying to disparage these looks, just to put them in context. You certainly can't argue with success: most YouTube content uses one or both versions of the AF look, and it will be a formative visual signature for generations of viewers.

I would be interested in knowing if I've missed another major visual signature that takes advantage AF.

It seems the latest FW release (linear focus and 90-360 degree focus turn option) will significantly improve manual focus for many SL lenses.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Oof. I wish they would prioritize the 21mm summicron over the 28-70 zoom, which seems redundant. There are currently no Leica quality primes in the very wide range, and 28, while useful, is already very close to the 35mm and catered to in both zooms and a number of M and third party lenses). A 21mm f2 with SL summicron quality would be incredibly useful for architecture and landscape...zooms are fine for some things, but not if you care about edge to edge uniformity or distortion (there is almost always residual complex distortion in my experience, even after “correction”). It would give the L mount a true no compromise wide angle prime, which it is lacking. What L mount is certainly not lacking is any number of general purpose zooms...there are several already from Leica, Sigma and Panasonic, let alone the cheaper adapted models. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[Jeff S]

16 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Oof. I wish they would prioritize the 21mm summicron over the 28-70 zoom, which seems redundant. There are currently no Leica quality primes in the very wide range, and 28, while useful, is already very close to the 35mm and catered to in both zooms and a number of M and third party lenses). A 21mm f2 with SL summicron quality would be incredibly useful for architecture and landscape...zooms are fine for some things, but not if you care about edge to edge uniformity or distortion (there is almost always residual complex distortion in my experience, even after “correction”). It would give the L mount a true no compromise wide angle prime, which it is lacking. What L mount is certainly not lacking is any number of general purpose zooms...there are several already from Leica, Sigma and Panasonic, let alone the cheaper adapted models. 

Without any info whatsoever, I would bet more on design/production issues than prioritization. The long Karbe presentation on SL lenses stressed the great difficulty involved.  If so, best to do it right than do it soon. But of course this could be completely wrong.

Jeff

[jplomley]

33 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Oof. I wish they would prioritize the 21mm summicron over the 28-70 zoom, which seems redundant. There are currently no Leica quality primes in the very wide range, and 28, while useful, is already very close to the 35mm and catered to in both zooms and a number of M and third party lenses). A 21mm f2 with SL summicron quality would be incredibly useful for architecture and landscape...zooms are fine for some things, but not if you care about edge to edge uniformity or distortion (there is almost always residual complex distortion in my experience, even after “correction”). It would give the L mount a true no compromise wide angle prime, which it is lacking. What L mount is certainly not lacking is any number of general purpose zooms...there are several already from Leica, Sigma and Panasonic, let alone the cheaper adapted models. 

Agreed, and one of the reasons I bought into the L system was a complete range of prime lenses being available. And quit frankly I’m getting rather pissed off at the continuing delays and radio silence from Leica. Had I known at the outset these delays would exist, I never would have bought into the SL system. More fool me. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by jplomley

[BernardC]

A silly thought just occurred to me. Remember how some Leica R zooms were made by Sigma? Sigma has the very best 24-70/2.8 right now...

For those following along at home, the 24-70 DG DN is the outstanding one. The older DG OS HSM isn't nearly as good.

[michali]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

It seems the latest FW release (linear focus and 90-360 degree focus turn option) will significantly improve manual focus for many SL lenses.

Jeff

Agree. I downloaded the FW update this afternoon & after some brief testing on both the VE 24-90mm L & VE 90-280mm L,  I can confirm that it's made a huge difference to MF on these lenses.  

I've set the 24-90mm to 90º turn & the 90-280mm to 150º turn. MF is now fast & accurate, without literally going around in circles trying to lock on to focus.

[Stuart Richardson]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

I don't think they see it a redundant. They see it as a refresh to the 24-90, which is their best seller SL. 

Who knows how they see it? Pretty strange to refresh a lens by making its zoom range significantly narrower. If this is truly something they are working on, it is aimed at a different segment. I understand how this lens can appeal to people, I just wish that it was not what they were focusing their efforts on, since there are some very noticeable gaps in the L lens line, and frankly they are not in the 28-70mm range...the facts are at this point that there are 0 Leica SL mount prime lenses wider than 35mm or longer than 90mm. By contrast there are three Panasonic zooms in this range (20-60, 24-105 and 24-70), a native 24-70 Sigma lens and Leica's own 24-90mm.

On the prime front, Sigma and Panasonic thankfully have lenses scheduled, but they are from their more workaday lineups, not their no compromise lines. In any case, I just think it would be nice to have a wide angle prime after five years since Leica started the L mount.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[caissa]

I think the biggest problem for companies in these days is not lens roadmaps, but not going bankrupt. I think we have now lenses for all occasions. (At least I have them). We have a huge choice now compared to MF cameras.(There are at least 5 native wide angle zooms.)

I would hate if Leica offered a big roadmap, but went bankrupt in a few months. I have experience with this already once with the R system. Or if Panasonic who is the source for many technical building blocks went out of the camera business.

I was simply surprised that Sigma is churning out new lenses almost all the time, despite the crisis. But it is probably more for E-mount than L-mount (If you look at the numbers sold). And their cameras (Foveon) are still far away. And I heard lately they will also produce for Nikon mirrorless.

Edited December 17, 2020 by caissa

[Jeff S]

45 minutes ago, Steven said:

I disagree here as well. By making it narrower, they are solving the three issues that people complained about with the 24-90. They are, from the least important to the most important: 

3. The weight

2. The size

1. The variable aperture. 

 

A fourth issue for me is the telescoping zoom, unlike the internal action of the two other SL zooms. Extension defeats full compactness, balance and perhaps degree of weather sealing.  Just not as elegant.  Hope they address that.  

A fifth, but minor issue, is the relatively less superb IQ at 90 vs the wide end. Presumably the narrower range will take care of that slight discrepancy.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

I spoke to a second source today, probably in an even higher position than the first one. He confirmed that the next lens is the 28-70. He was more reserved about the January announcement but did say it was at the latest in the first trimester of 2021. It’s coming! 

Any word on my 4th issue?

Jeff

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[jplomley]

18 minutes ago, Steven said:

I spoke to a second source today, probably in an even higher position than the first one. He confirmed that the next lens is the 28-70. He was more reserved about the January announcement but did say it was at the latest in the first trimester of 2021. It’s coming! 

Thats it for me then. All my L stuff will be up for sale. Leica has lost the plot entirely and cannot be trusted. Looking forward to getting a Hasselblad, equipped with a fine selection of wide angle primes.

[caissa]

4 hours ago, michali said:

Agree. I downloaded the FW update this afternoon & after some brief testing on both the VE 24-90mm L & VE 90-280mm L,  I can confirm that it's made a huge difference to MF on these lenses.  

I've set the 24-90mm to 90º turn & the 90-280mm to 150º turn. MF is now fast & accurate, without literally going around in circles trying to lock on to focus.

I wonder, does it have an influence on the AF speed ? Or is it completely independent ?

Do I understand correctly, that it makes no difference on the 16-35 (does not support it) ?