Availability of wide angle primes?

[Stuart Richardson]

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Is there any estimated ETA on the wider angle Summicron lenses? I only have the 50mm APO Summicron, and I am finding that I can make due with adapted lenses for the longer focal lengths, but I am struggling to find an option for the wides, particularly for architecture. For me edge to edge sharpness and speed are most important, and in looking at the MTF and comparing it to similar lenses I have used, I know that the 16-35mm zoom will not work for me. If Leica is not going to release these for months or years, what are the very best Sigma versions? There are quite a number of versions, so I am not sure where to start. I am most interested in the 21-28mm range.

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[Chuck Albertson]

The wider wides aren't even featured on the company's Website any more. They used to have an "expected by" date when they were.

[Slender]

You can find a few images shot with the Summicron SL 28 on LFI gallery.... it's out there...

[helged]

Latest I heard was that SL21 should be out Q1 2021, but hard to know with Covid...

[FrozenInTime]

Now that all the 24mm M lenses are discontinued , I wonder if SL set will similarly be reduced to just 21mm and 28mm.

[Photoworks]

in the latest zoom missing Andrea said the 28mm is coming first.

[Stuart Richardson]

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What zoom meeting, and who is Andrea? Is there some sort of club I am missing out on, lol?

[Simone_DF]

There's the Sigma 24mm f3.5 coming out next month

[NicholasT]

16 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Is there any estimated ETA on the wider angle Summicron lenses? I only have the 50mm APO Summicron, and I am finding that I can make due with adapted lenses for the longer focal lengths, but I am struggling to find an option for the wides, particularly for architecture. For me edge to edge sharpness and speed are most important, and in looking at the MTF and comparing it to similar lenses I have used, I know that the 16-35mm zoom will not work for me. If Leica is not going to release these for months or years, what are the very best Sigma versions? There are quite a number of versions, so I am not sure where to start. I am most interested in the 21-28mm range.

I've also been waiting and wondering when Leica will release the wider angle Summicron lenses. Last information I had (from dealer) was Q1/Q2 2021.

In the meantime I recently purchased the new Lumix S-Pro 16-35 F4 L Mount. Originally intended as a stop gap measure, while I await release of the SL primes (interested in SL 21 F2 or SL 24 F2). 

Re the Lumix other than being a rather slow lens at a constant F4, the IQ is far better than one could possibly expect at its price point and at less than half the weight of the Leica 16-35 (not to mention 5x1 price difference) its an absolute pleasure to use. In fact it's such a good find, that I will likely be keeping it even after Leica releases the wide SL primes.

Since you've eliminated the Leica 16-35 from consideration you clearly won't be seriously interested in the Lumix 16-35, but it may be a worth considering for next 6 to 9 months while Leica gets around to releasing SL Summicron lenses. This would avoid taking depreciation hit on more expensive lens, while being pleasantly surprised with the results this lens can deliver.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by NicholasT

[Stuart Richardson]

Thanks Nicholas. I think for whatever reason, I have never liked any of the zooms I have ever tried, except the 28-90mm R zoom, and that was primarily on crop frame 10mp APS-C, where any errors were simply invisible. I tried the SL 24-90 and was impressed in some ways, but not enough to consider ever buying it. So I figure that my preferences are pretty set. But you have a good argument about something that does quite well, especially for the size and price.

However, the 24mm Sigma looks like the ticket for me, at least until I have time to decide whether I need a Leica prime in this range. It seems the performance is good, it is cheap, and it is small. All those things are big bonuses for me, so it seems it will fit the bill.

 

[NicholasT]

16 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thanks Nicholas. I think for whatever reason, I have never liked any of the zooms I have ever tried, except the 28-90mm R zoom, and that was primarily on crop frame 10mp APS-C, where any errors were simply invisible. I tried the SL 24-90 and was impressed in some ways, but not enough to consider ever buying it. So I figure that my preferences are pretty set. But you have a good argument about something that does quite well, especially for the size and price.

However, the 24mm Sigma looks like the ticket for me, at least until I have time to decide whether I need a Leica prime in this range. It seems the performance is good, it is cheap, and it is small. All those things are big bonuses for me, so it seems it will fit the bill.

 

+1 re Sigma 24mm.

The Sigma 45mm 2.8 is one of my most frequently used lens. I can't wait for the 24mm to make its appearance in January.

Re zooms I generally agree with your thinking as I also strongly favor primes. The Leica 24-90 may be the first zoom I seriously considered (for very short time) as an alternative to primes, but ultimately passed due to size & weight. One or two hours with the 24-90 seemed ok, but several hours started to feel like a real chore.

[toyfel]

Panasonic is said to release a 24mm f1.8. However, similar to Leica there is no expected release date on their lens roadmap. 

[helged]

Seems to be the last/best guidance as of today:

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The 16-35 is generally better, in it's class, than the 24-90, which is excellent at the wide end and merely very very good at the long end. It also doesn't extend. Stopped down the 16-35 is hard to criticise except for the usual and easily corrected distortions wide lenses often bring. The Sigma 12-24 is also excellent. Almost as good wide open as stopped down. Maybe ever so slightly sharper in the corners at 2.8 than the SL at 3.5. Stopped down the Leica is *slightly* better. Very slightly. The only real negative in the Sigma is the difficulty in using any filters. Both are worthy of the 47MP SL2. Wide zooms have improved rapidly in the last 5 years and the Leica and Sigma are excellent examples.

For any serious architecture work you still can't beat a T/S lens. The Canon's are excellent. Although not to the Summicron standard the 24mm (and to an extent the 17mm) are better than a tilt corrected non TS lens. The Nikon 19 also is very good but finding a Nikon E adaptor from Novoflex is very difficult.

An alternate to the 28mm Summicron might also be a Q2. That's what I did even though I do have both the Sigma and Leica wide zooms. For architecture I prefer the Canon's with a MC21 adaptor and a sturdy tripod, except for travel when I take the SIgma due to its coverage.

Gordon

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you Gordon. I believe you that the zooms are better, but frankly, as I said, I was not impressed with the 24-90, and looking at the MTF of the 16-35mm, I see the same behavior of significantly reduced edge performance and divergence between tangential and sagittal MTF, which in the past I have experienced as an indication of my future disappointment, should I buy the lens. Contrast is around 30% even at f8 in the corners. All these zooms seem to be quite sharp in the center, but they always seem to suffer noticeably in the edges. The challenge here is that for much of the year there is snow and black rocks in the landscape, and mountains that are at a far distance from the camera. These equidistant details and the high contrast detail are made to make your life miserable if you want to print large from anything other than fantastic lenses, because it practically telegraphs the loss in sharpness as you extend further out from the center. For most people, this loss of sharpness is well worth the trade off for the flexibility and the excellent performance over most of the field. For me, I do not need multiple focal lengths at the same time. I see better with prime lenses and prefer their performance. Looking at the Sigma MTF, it is not perfect, but it does seem to be as good or better than the 16-35mm at about a tenth of the price.

Regarding the TS lenses, that is a good point and something I am interested in, but to be honest, I am wondering whether I would be better off with something like a small viewcamera set up? I still know very little about them, however. I am used to 4x5 for film, and the idea of having that open to me on digital is appealing. I have tried already, but the shortest lens I can focus to infinity with my adapted setup is 180mm, which is not that useful, frankly. (I am using a Horseman LE with a Sinar to Hassleblad adapter, a Hasselblad to Leica S adapter and then a Leica S to SL adapter. A bit absurd, but it does function (better than the S, which has too much mirror slap).

Edited December 17, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[caissa]

On 12/15/2020 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

Is there any estimated ETA on the wider angle Summicron lenses? I only have the 50mm APO Summicron, and I am finding that I can make due with adapted lenses for the longer focal lengths, but I am struggling to find an option for the wides, particularly for architecture. For me edge to edge sharpness and speed are most important, and in looking at the MTF and comparing it to similar lenses I have used, I know that the 16-35mm zoom will not work for me. If Leica is not going to release these for months or years, what are the very best Sigma versions? There are quite a number of versions, so I am not sure where to start. I am most interested in the 21-28mm range.

The SL 16-35 is a fantastic lens. I live in Switzerland, so in the mountains we often have similar requirements as in your region. Try the lens (maybe renting it). It is much better than all other wide zooms I ever used. Also better than the tiny M 16-18-21 (WATE).

But if you want to wait, 28 mm and 24 mm will probably come in the second half of 2021, and 21 mm in 2022.

By the way before all that my best 21mm was the Zeiss Distagon 2.8/21mm. You can use it adapted. (Nikon mount or also in EF mount) I still like it, but for me the SL 16-35 is better.

You could use one of these lenses while you are waiting.

Think also about using multi-shot with these lenses. You could use the zoom at 16mm and then cut off the edges (with “low” quality) and still have more than 100 MP (and maybe still 18 or 19mm equivalent).

Or the Canon EF 11-24mm is even wider.

Edited December 17, 2020 by caissa

[helged]

Two factors in favour of the SL WA zoom: The flare resistance of the SL 16-35 is the best & most robust among the WA lenses I have used. And a 'normal' front element is a big plus for use of filters. 

[jplomley]

6 hours ago, helged said:

Seems to be the last/best guidance as of today:

 

Idiots. If they go and introduce this 28-70 before the long ago promised wide angle primes, the promise upon which I bought into the system, then I will abandon the SL altogether and Leica will not see another penny from me. Enough is enough already. This lens was not even on the roadmap and makes no sense whatsoever. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[helged]

6 hours ago, jplomley said:

Idiots. If they go and introduce this 28-70 before the long ago promised wide angle primes, the promise upon which I bought into the system, then I will abandon the SL altogether and Leica will not see another penny from me. Enough is enough already. This lens was not even on the roadmap and makes no sense whatsoever. 

Time will tell what's coming & when. Leica is somewhat unpredictable in this respect... 

[scott kirkpatrick]

This little flutter of threads is about what Leica is most likely to do (and rumors, since everything they do takes a year or more of development),.  It is not about what they MUST do to make ME happy.  They seem to be enjoying sufficient revenues to support two SL products, each with competitive technology.  One is just right for stills and promises advances in video.  The other pushes the envelope for large prints with more pixels than are needed for video, keeping some customers' appetites for those pixels growing.  And while the 24-90 sold like hotcakes back in 2015, maybe it, too, needs to be supported by a smaller, lighter (cheaper??) model that hits right into the center of its uses.  The true Leicaholic will purchase both.