S007=>S3 Upgrade: Worth $10K?

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Maybe this is too flippant, but I kind of get the feeling that the S006 looks like slide film and shoots like negative film, and the S3 shoots like slide film and looks like negative film.

But I also want to stress that everyone I talked to about this thinks I am wrong, except for a few colleagues who do not have the camera.

The beauty about personal experience is that you’re right about how you feel, and others are right about how they feel. 
 

Jeff

[ynp]

When my S2-p showed some signs of corrosion, I started to look for a clean 007. I was unable to find anything locally and the international buying became difficult because of the pandemic. I bought my S3 on the day of its introduction here in Moscow. 

If you want some raw files to compare with your 007, I can shoot some frames for you. 
 

yevgeny 

[John McMaster]

19 hours ago, Jeff S said:

A benefit for those shooting with the S007, and I presume even more with the S3, is the flexibility it can provide for handheld work at somewhat higher but not extreme ISOs.

Jeff

I rarely use my M system these days, I am happy with my S(007) at higher ISOs than I am my M(240) so the Summilux lenses are balanced with the higher ISO of the S.  Shallower DoF and greater weight/bulk are the downsides (once the kit was purchased), but once I am printing to a decent size (A2 and larger) the S is way ahead...

john

[setuporg]

So here's the crux of the matter: every time I shoot my S007, the results are outstanding.

The question is, will this feeling be exceeded by S3?  What if it will be lacking?  In that sense, the upgrade is risky.  Why part with an amazing thing, hoping for an even better thing? 

I think the trade-in program must be accompanied by a try before you buy program as well.

[Jeff S]

I wouldn’t make a major system change without conducting my own tests, including making prints (at least not now... been there, done that in my young film days).

Even then, viewers don't generally know or care what camera was used for creating an outstanding picture and print, especially when using a fully capable modern system.  Differences for me generally come down to other factors....handling, viewing and focusing, controls, lenses, etc.  The S007 and S3 are essentially identical in those regards.  

I'd start by asking what's lacking, if anything.  Or simply GAS?  Pretty simple, really.

Jeff

Edited December 20, 2020 by Jeff S

[mgrayson3]

11 hours ago, setuporg said:

So here's the crux of the matter: every time I shoot my S007, the results are outstanding.

The question is, will this feeling be exceeded by S3?  What if it will be lacking?  In that sense, the upgrade is risky.  Why part with an amazing thing, hoping for an even better thing? 

I think the trade-in program must be accompanied by a try before you buy program as well.

In my brief time with an S3, I *did* find a time when the extra pixels were useful. I had a 100mm lens on the camera when a giant soap bubble floated by. Even with the S3, the image was less than 2,000 pixels on a side, with Topaz Gigapixel, I could get good 24" square prints, but it would have been harder with the 007. Otherwise, I found the cameras identical. I suppose support for the sensor and color profiles will last longer for the S3...

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[setuporg]

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14 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I'd start by asking what's lacking, if anything.  Or simply GAS?  Pretty simple, really.

First of all, nothing wrong with GAS, which is the motto of this forum.:)

What's lacking -- I'm not sure, but higher ISO range could be handy.

Most importantly, the trade-in program is an opportunity to get an extra $4K towards the upgrade, so we have a time constraint here putting pressure on decision-making...

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, setuporg said:

First of all, nothing wrong with GAS

Never said otherwise; just helps to recognize it.

 

18 hours ago, setuporg said:

So here's the crux of the matter: every time I shoot my S007, the results are outstanding.

 

Better hurry and create some problems to solve.

 

Jeff

[setuporg]

26 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Better hurry and create some problems to solve.

The current program is set to end on January 31.  Unless it is extended again, it is indeed a problem to solve, whether to use it or not!

[Jeff S]

You need to create a $14k problem so that you can see it as a $4k savings, not a $10k cost.  This is expert level GAS strategy.

Jeff
 

 

[setuporg]

20 hours ago, Jeff S said:

You need to create a $14k problem so that you can see it as a $4k savings, not a $10k cost.  This is expert level GAS strategy.

It's rather a $19K problem which currently has $5K trade-in + $4K incentive solution.  Leica is expert at kindling GAS indeed, we're just obliging here.  The thread is started under these express conditions, the difference between 007 and S3 under the time pressure of January 31st deadline.  But you're right in a way it is an artificial constraint, in an ideal world (a spherical horse in vacuum) where $4K makes no difference...

[Jeff S]

The point is that if you’re completely happy with the S007 (which “always yields outstanding results”), then there seemingly is zero problem.  But you’re the one who defines whether there is a “problem”, i.e., S007 deficiencies, worth solving. After that, it’s just a matter of determining how much the solution is worth.  You define that amount, not Leica, and not anyone else responding here. Testing the S3 would help. But GAS will typically make the math and logic work, regardless.

Jeff

Edited December 21, 2020 by Jeff S

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,  Take the plunge.  I know you will do it anyways.  The S3 is superb...better ISO, color (red channel), long exposure time, 3 year warranty soup to nuts, GPS (not on SL2), superb S lenses, new sensor renders unlike anything in its class, others will drool with S3 envy (happens a lot), your large prints will excel in all means, detail, color (cinematic), video if you wish, very good trade in program, you can easily sell/trade your other stuff...nothing comes close to the the S3 and S lenses. (You know that too)  My clients spent a lot of $$ on S3 photographs this year...I am happy and they are happy.  Just got a note from Santa's workshop...Santa is bringing you a AMEX card with zero balance and $10K credit (might be fake news)...Don't suffer from GAS anxiety and "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" angst...life is short and gets shorter each day...and that is nothing to Ho,Ho,Ho about....Merry Christmas and ring in the New Year with a new S3!  r/ Mark

Edited December 22, 2020 by LeicaR10

[ZHNL]

3 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Setuporg,  Take the plunge.  I know you will do it anyways.  The S3 is superb...better ISO, color (red channel), long exposure time, 3 year warranty soup to nuts, GPS (not on SL2), superb S lenses, new sensor renders unlike anything in its class, others will drool with S3 envy (happens a lot), your large prints will excel in all means, detail, color (cinematic), video if you wish, very good trade in program, you can easily sell/trade your other stuff...nothing comes close to the the S3 and S lenses. (You know that too)  My clients spent a lot of $$ on S3 photographs this year...I am happy and they are happy.  Just got a note from Santa's workshop...Santa is bringing you a AMEX card with zero balance and $10K credit (might be fake news)...Don't suffer from GAS anxiety and "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" angst...life is short and gets shorter each day...and that is nothing to Ho,Ho,Ho about....Merry Christmas and ring in the New Year with a new S3!  r/ Mark

Don’t know him, I almost pull out my credit card without knowing LOL

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

 3 year warranty soup to nuts, 

Leica US online shop shows limited 2 year warranty included for $18,995.  Are you citing a special deal, or an add-on for extra cost?  The 3 year Protection Program used to be included with purchase with the S007, but when the price was lowered significantly, the Plan was separated out as a $3450 option, as I recall.

https://leicacamerausa.com/leica-s3.html

Jeff

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,   My typo...2 year warranty...still a great Christmas present from Santa...r/ Mark

[Jeff S]

39 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Setuporg,   My typo...2 year warranty...still a great Christmas present from Santa...r/ Mark

And not “soup to nuts”; just standard limited warranty, unlike the Protection Plan. 

Jeff

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jeff S

[setuporg]

21 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Just got a note from Santa's workshop...Santa is bringing you a AMEX card with zero balance and $10K credit (might be fake news)...

Let me know where I should send Santa my address so it gets to the right place!

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,   The elves just emailed me the address:   Mr Santa Claus....c/o Chief Leica Workshop Elf....1 Reindeer Lane...North Pole, AT (Arctic) 10001...HO, HO, HO!  r/ Mark

PS...There is a "claus" in all this...you have to be good 365 days a year to qualify...not one day out of 365 like me...just writing from experience dealing with Santa...

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[glenerrolrd]

On 12/16/2020 at 5:58 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

Maybe this is too flippant, but I kind of get the feeling that the S006 looks like slide film and shoots like negative film, and the S3 shoots like slide film and looks like negative film.

But I also want to stress that everyone I talked to about this thinks I am wrong, except for a few colleagues who do not have the camera.

Are you sure you have this right ?    The S006 has a narrow dynamic range (like slide film ) and handles highlights well but watch out for muddy,noisy underexposed shadows (like slide film ) . Get the exposure just right and its a terrific rendering (like slide film ) .   The S3 has a fuller dynamic range (like print film ) and you can pull back shadows easily (like print film ) .  It produces with most presets a very nice linear contrast file ..which can be worked to many different renderings (like print film ) .  

To my eye in LR the S3 is closer to the S 006 in color and aesthetic than the S 007 .  Both the S 007 and S3 are more forgiving due to better dynamic range .....but you may have difficulty getting that slide film look .