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SL2-S vs Z6

la1402

By la1402
in Leica SL System

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la1402

la1402

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Hello everybody - I would like to shortly introduce myself as i think this is my first post. I have been reading here a lot and enjoy the great amount of insight you share, thank you so much.  I am a hobby photographer since the mid 80s, nothing spectacular but I enjoy it. When my daughter was young, I bought a couple of Summicrons (35,50) for my Nex5, but never really used the NEX much as I  always preferred Nikons User interface (and could not afford more Leica).  Currently I have a Z6 with several nice lenses, including the 35,50,85 1.8S primes. While I really like their output, I am not so fond of their size, so I decided to bring the lovely Summicrons back to use.  I used them on the Z6, but was not so super exited. Then I thought this is a good excuse to get used M10 😉, but after testing I must say it is regrettably not for my bad eyes (bifocal glasses, Atshigmatism), as much as I liked handling it. I don't want or need 47MP, so the SL2 was not really interesting (and too expensive). After the announcement of the SL2-S went to our local shop yesterday and was blown away by the Viewfinder in the SL2-S and took it home tonight 😀.

Now I was curios about two aspects - how the SL2S compares at High ISO with the very good Z6, and wether I will see a difference in how the Summicron 35/2 ASph performs on the two bodies. I have attached two test shots at f4, 1/160s and ISO 6400 and some 100% crops. All posted images are based on unprocessed RAw files with Noise reduction and sharpening off, Auto White Balance. Sorry if the setup is not great - I have no experience doing this. But I think I see a few things anyway. In my view:

1) The SL2-S is very good at white balance - at least in the pictures I saw so far. The Z6 is too orange.

2) Noise is pretty close although I somehow thing sthe SL2S has a more consistent pattern while the Z6 can get a bit blotchy in darker parts.

3) The Lower left Edge is definitely sharper, so there could be something to the claim about special microlenses for M-Glass.

Let me know what you think:

 

So far I am pretty happy with what I see. The Camera is larger than the Z6, but actually fits better in my large hands than the Z6 for which I  would need an L Plate (otherwhise it would be too short). I love the shutter sound. The UI looks simple but is much less intuitive than other cameras, so I need to get used to that.

Original Files are here if someone is interested.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsvTwjTJIhXbjnLqCBFmfAcifeGd?e=W4qMvJ

 

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Daedalus2000

Daedalus2000

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1 hour ago, la1402 said:

No the other way round

Yes the Leica seems to get the red color right in this one and you are right it looks sharper (both by looking at the bus). I think it will be  a great camera to use with any M lenses, but it will be very costly to replace your nikon lenses and you will gain nothing in terms of size. So I would say if you want it mainly for M lenses it does make sense. 

Just to check, why is the Nikon pic so much brighter?

Edited by Daedalus2000
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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb la1402:

...

3) The Lower left Edge is definitely sharper, so there could be something to the claim about special microlenses for M-Glass.

Let me know what you think:

...

 

 

Comparing two cameras for sharpness, one with an AA-/OLP-filter and one without, is a futile exercise. At 100% the Z6 will always look less sharp, not just in the lower left edge but across the frame.

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la1402

la1402

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8 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Yes the Leica seems to get the red color right in this one and you are right it looks sharper (both by looking at the bus). I think it will be  a great camera to use with any M lenses, but it will be very costly to replace your nikon lenses and you will gain nothing in terms of size. So I would say if you want it mainly for M lenses it does make sense. 

Just to check, why is the Nikon pic so much brighter?

Yes my plan indeed is to mainly use M primes, and for convenience Sigma Art zooms. Leica SL lenses are not in my plan yet. 

I checked the camera settings a few times as I saw that, too. Settings are the same. So I don’t know why the Nikon is brighter.

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Daedalus2000

Daedalus2000

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4 hours ago, la1402 said:

Yes my plan indeed is to mainly use M primes, and for convenience Sigma Art zooms. Leica SL lenses are not in my plan yet. 

I checked the camera settings a few times as I saw that, too. Settings are the same. So I don’t know why the Nikon is brighter.

Maybe their definition of iso is different by 3/4 of a stop or so

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Kwesi

Kwesi

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10 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Maybe their definition of iso is different by 3/4 of a stop or so

I noticed when I went from the M9 to M240 and then to M10 that Leica had started to inflate its ISO values compared to a handheld meter and my Nikon 810. The M9 was spot on but in the others, Leica's ISO 200, for example, is actually about ISO 125. Based on your experience, it seems the SL line also has inflated ISO values.

For the record, Leica isn't the only one guilty of this.

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farnz

farnz

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2 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Maybe their definition of iso is different by 3/4 of a stop or so

That would be surprising since both should be testing and declaring their ISO values in accordance with the International Standards Organisation's standard: Photography — Digital still cameras — Determination of exposure index, ISO speed ratings, standard output sensitivity, and recommended exposure index: ISO 12232:2019.

Pete.

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor einer Stunde schrieb farnz:

That would be surprising since both should be testing and declaring their ISO values in accordance with the International Standards Organisation's standard: Photography — Digital still cameras — Determination of exposure index, ISO speed ratings, standard output sensitivity, and recommended exposure index: ISO 12232:2019.

Pete.

The Z6 was developed before 2019 and, therefore, likely the 2006 standard was used which gave manufacturers more leeway. See post by LUIS A GUEVARA here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2838786

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farnz

farnz

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22 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

The Z6 was developed before 2019 and, therefore, likely the 2006 standard was used which gave manufacturers more leeway. See post by LUIS A GUEVARA here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2838786

Perhaps you're right.  I note that Luis's post dates from 2010 so it has no knowledge of ISO 12232: 2019 of course.  

Since the SL was released in 2015 and Leica's development cycles are measured in years it's likely that development of the SL2 (and by inference the SL2-S) was started well before 2019 so both the SL2-S and Z6 were probably developed in accordance with the 2006 standard and I would expect them both to produce equivalent 'brightness' for the same ISO values.  Perhaps there's another variable that we're not noticing.

Pete.

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SrMi

SrMi

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1 hour ago, farnz said:

That would be surprising since both should be testing and declaring their ISO values in accordance with the International Standards Organisation's standard: Photography — Digital still cameras — Determination of exposure index, ISO speed ratings, standard output sensitivity, and recommended exposure index: ISO 12232:2019.

Pete.

From: https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/iso-is-seldom-just-digital-gain

ISO 12232:2019:

ISO speed and ISO speed latitude values shall not be reported for raw images, however, because with raw images processing that affects the values has not been performed.

Quote from linked article:

Thus, according to the standard that is developed by a workgroup that includes representatives of major camera manufacturers, the "ISO speed" parameter is not defined for raw at all.

More details also here:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9698391814/the-ins-and-outs-of-iso-what-is-iso

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Daedalus2000

Daedalus2000

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3 hours ago, farnz said:

That would be surprising since both should be testing and declaring their ISO values in accordance with the International Standards Organisation's standard: Photography — Digital still cameras — Determination of exposure index, ISO speed ratings, standard output sensitivity, and recommended exposure index: ISO 12232:2019.

Pete.

Thanks for that, I was not aware of the 2019 iso standard, but I actually checked and if you look here you see that the Z6 iso rating is overstated

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Nikon/Z6---Measurements

and this is for the original SL, which are closer to the true ones

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Leica/SL-Typ-601---Measurements

Edited by Daedalus2000
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fieldafield

fieldafield

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I've only tested to 28mm, and only Leica lenses but I  would expect to have seen some sign of issues if there were any....

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LocalHero1953

LocalHero1953

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6 minutes ago, fieldafield said:

I've only tested to 28mm, and only Leica lenses but I  would expect to have seen some sign of issues if there were any....

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That's hardly a test of edge sharpness!

(Alternatively, most of the image is smeared😉)

Edited by LocalHero1953
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