Not The APO Of My Eye

[fotografr]

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I'm sure I'll find disagreement with this, so let me start by saying this is only my experience and opinion and reflects only my perceptions.

I'm essentially a 50mm M shooter. It's by far my favorite focal length. Because of that, I've always read about different versions with great interest and have owned a bevy of them. There were raves about the 50mm APO Summicron when it was introduced so my interest was piqued. Then I read about flare problems so I held off. Eventually I jumped in with the standard version. It was sharp and functionally perfect, but I just wasn't overly impressed with it. I thought maybe it was just an odd copy, so I decided to sell it and move up a notch to the black chrome version.

After using the BC for several months I remained unimpressed. Again, it was clinically perfect, razor sharp edge to edge, but it just didn't have any kind of personality or uniqueness.

I recalled having been very happy in past years with the 50mm Summicron, type 4, so I started looking and very quickly found a mint copy which I recently purchased. It's absolutely fantastic and in my opinion better in many ways than the 50mm APO BC.  I detect no differe,nce in sharpness and much prefer the way the old lens renders. To my eye it has a nicer bokeh and is somewhat less contrasty--an advantage when shooting with the Monochrom. It's also considerably smaller, lighter and several thousand dollars less costly.

So, here I am having gone through all these 50s, including several Summiluxes, both pre-asph and asph, various newer versions of Summicrons, only to end up with a 30 year old lens that I prefer over all the others. And I couldn't be happier about it. Walter Mandler really got it right with this lens.

Edited October 31, 2020 by fotografr

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[Rob L]

Also generally the most affordable of the 50s

[fotografr]

31 minutes ago, Rob L said:

Also generally the most affordable of the 50s

Very true. I paid a premium for the one I just bought because it is truly in mint condition and the price was only $1750 USD.

[Guest Nowhereman]

As you suggest, clearly, this is a matter of taste. My understanding is that the Summicron 50 v3 is has somewhat higher contrast and, also somewhat, lower resolution than the v2 (DR Summicron and Rigid), as discussed in a Seth Rosner article that used to be on the LHSA website. (As it's copyrighted, I don't think I can upload it here.)

My own preference is that I especially like the rendition of the DR Summicron, although I also like that of the Summilux 50 pre-ASPH: when the current ASPH-version came out, a friend and I picked up the last two new copies in Bangkok of the pre-ASPH for $1,350. Having these two lenses, I've never been tempted by wither the Summicron 50 APO or the Summilux 50 ASPH. Here are two shots each from these two lenses. Someone seeking a different aesthetic may prefer other 50mm lenses but, then, he or she may not be interested in my photobook. 

M6 | DR Summicron 50 | Tri-X | Stand development in Rodinal 1:100

M10 DR Summicron 50 | ISO 200 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec

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M9 | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 160 | f/1.4 | 1/60
Paris

M-Monochrom | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.0 | 1/125
Paris
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook

[adan]

1 hour ago, fotografr said:

So, here I am having gone through all these 50s, including several Summiluxes, both pre- asph and asph, various newer versions of Summicrons, only to end up with a 30 year old 40-50 year old lens that I prefer over all the others. And I couldn't be happier about it. Walter Mandler really got it right with this lens.

Even though not a regular 50mm user, I agree with this - except as edited above (V. III is the 1970s Summicron, replaced by the v. 4/5 (current optics) in 1979).

V.1 - collapsible, 7 elements, 1953-??
V.2 - new optics; "Rigid"/DR, 7 (revised) elements, 1957-1968
V.3 - new optics, 6 elements, 1969-1979
V.4 - new optics, 6 (revised) elements, 1979-1994-ish - some have a focusing tab, some don't.
"V.5" - v.4 optics, built-in hood, no tab. cosmetics revised 1994-ish

v.3 in all its minimalist glory.

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[fotografr]

41 minutes ago, adan said:

Even though not a regular 50mm user, I agree with this - except as edited above (V. III is the 1970s Summicron, replaced by the v. 4/5 (current optics) in 1979).

V.1 - collapsible, 7 elements, 1953-??
V.2 - new optics; "Rigid"/DR, 7 (revised) elements, 1957-1968
V.3 - new optics, 6 elements, 1969-1979
V.4 - new optics, 6 (revised) elements, 1979-1994-ish - some have a focusing tab, some don't.
"V.5" - v.4 optics, built-in hood, no tab. cosmetics revised 1994-ish

v.3 in all its minimalist glory.

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Adan,

You are correct about the version. My lens actually was made in 1988 so it is not a version III (photo below).  It is a type 4 (I corrected my post). Mine does have the focusing tab, though it isn't visible in my photo.

I must say, however, that it breaks my heart that you had to cut that beautiful Summicron in half to demonstrate your point.

Cheers,

Brent

Edited October 31, 2020 by fotografr

[fotografr]

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52 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

As you suggest, clearly, this is a matter of taste. My understanding is that the Summicron 50 v3 is has somewhat higher contrast and, also somewhat, lower resolution than the v2 (DR Summicron and Rigid), as discussed in a Seth Rosner article that used to be on the LHSA website. (As it's copyrighted, I don't think I can upload it here.)

My own preference is that I especially like the rendition of the DR Summicron, although I also like that of the Summilux 50 pre-ASPH: when the current ASPH-version came out, a friend and I picked up the last two new copies in Bangkok of the pre-ASPH for $1,350. Having these two lenses, I've never been tempted by wither the Summicron 50 APO or the Summilux 50 ASPH. Here are two shots each from these two lenses. Someone seeking a different aesthetic may prefer other 50mm lenses but, then, he or she may not be interested in my photobook. 

M6 | DR Summicron 50 | Tri-X | Stand development in Rodinal 1:100

M10 DR Summicron 50 | ISO 200 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec

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M9 | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 160 | f/1.4 | 1/60
Paris

M-Monochrom | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.0 | 1/125
Paris
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook

Very nice images, especially the trees with the foggy background. In terms of resolution, I'm using my Summicron on the M10M and it's hard to imagine any lens, including the 50 APO, having noticeably higher resolution. One would have to pixel peep in the extreme to see a difference. As Adan pointed out, I incorrectly identified my copy as a version III when it is actually a version IV, so perhaps there was a modest improvement in resolution. At any rate, this older glass is superb.

Edited October 31, 2020 by fotografr

[farnz]

7 hours ago, fotografr said:

I must say, however, that it breaks my heart that you had to cut that beautiful Summicron in half to demonstrate your point.

But of course cutting the lens in half means it only needs half the amount of light and there will only be half the noise in the pictures.  Win-win.

Pete.

[lct]

7 hours ago, adan said:

V.4 - new optics, 6 (revised) elements, 1979-1994-ish - some have a focusing tab, some don't.

A v4 sans focus tab? Are you sure? Early ones have a convex focus tab ("tiger claw"), later ones a concave focus tab, v3 and v5 have none but v4? Just curious.

 

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[Jeff S]

8 hours ago, fotografr said:

I must say, however, that it breaks my heart that you had to cut that beautiful Summicron in half to demonstrate your point.

 

 

Leica recommends shooting wide open.

Jeff

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Leica recommends shooting wide open.

Jeff

Good one, Jeff. 😁

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, farnz said:

But of course cutting the lens in half means it only needs half the amount of light and there will only be half the noise in the pictures.  Win-win.

Pete.

It looks to me like that lens will overexpose.

[Ko.Fe.]

My copy of v4 had ugly flare, like no any other less gloried lenses had before and after.  Well known flare.

It was with its plastic parts on the aperture and odd Canadian beaver tail  some clueless call as tiger paw. 

It has significant focus shift at longer distances. I get rid of it without any regret.

If I would be 50 guy, I would get any 50 1.4 Lux I could afford.  I hold once silver 50 1.4 M pre-ASPH in my hands. Lovely lens. ELC's costs cut free.  

Edited November 1, 2020 by Ko.Fe.

[jaques]

I love my viii. It's sharp enough to for any photo I'll ever take.

 

never felt any new to buy any modern Leica lenses- with so much great vintage glass to choose- I'd rather have 4 vintage lenses for less than the cost of a single modern one.

[lct]

The 50/2 apo has less flare, less field curvature and less focus shift than both 50/2 v4 and v5 for sure but it has little pity for less than perfect skins and it is significantly bulkier and heavier, which is not surprising at this level of performance. Sans hood, the 50/2 v4 is unrivaled for its compactness AFAIK.

[dkmoore]

Are selling the BC Brent?!?

[fotografr]

38 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Are selling the BC Brent?!?

Already gone. It never grew on me. It was originally purchased by a guy in California who sold it to someone I know who then sold it to me. I sold it back to the original buyer in California. Interestingly, the price stayed the same for each transaction.

Edited November 1, 2020 by fotografr

[fotografr]

11 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

My copy of v4 had ugly flare, like no any other less gloried lenses had before and after.  Well known flare.

It was with its plastic parts on the aperture and odd Canadian beaver tail  some clueless call as tiger paw. 

It has significant focus shift at longer distances. I get rid of it without any regret.

If I would be 50 guy, I would get any 50 1.4 Lux I could afford.  I hold once silver 50 1.4 M pre-ASPH in my hands. Lovely lens. ELC's costs cut free.  

It sounds like you had a bad copy. That does happen. I have no focus shift at long distances and haven't had any flare issues.

I do also have a 50 1.4 pre-asph, which I agree it's a great lens. However, my v4 Summicron is sharper at f2 than my lux is at the same aperture. That lux also suffers flare problems that I don't get with my Summicron.

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[Ko.Fe.]

14 minutes ago, fotografr said:

It sounds like you had a bad copy. That does happen. I have no focus shift at long distances and haven't had any flare issues.

I do also have a 50 1.4 pre-asph, which I agree it's a great lens. However, my v4 Summicron is sharper at f2 than my lux is at the same aperture. That lux also suffers flare problems that I don't get with my Summicron.

I only checked my Rigid, V3 and V4 for focus shifts. Not all Crons I used to have. All tested did focus shifted. It is known fact. Not my personal observation.

My v4 was optimized for f2 and close, mid distances. It wasn't "a bad copy".

As for v4 vail flare it is well known defect. It happens if you take image in certain position of the sun in the frame.  Again, just google it.

Or are you saying where are so many bad copies for legendary quality Leitz lenses? My copy of ZM 50/2 had no focus shift, btw. Again, I was anal enough to check it with test target. Same I used to check Rigid, v3 and v4.

[lct]

Flare is easy to avoid on 50/2 v4 and v5. Suffice it to keep your back to the sun.  Just kidding but 50/1.4 asph and pre-asph are hard to beat there.