SL2 “not enough power” issue

[scott kirkpatrick]

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Look, batteries are not digital, even though we present their state in bars or percent.  A Lithium-Ion battery, charged to the max, presents 8.3 volts to an open circuit.  I don't know what voltage corresponds to 0 bars or 0 per cent, as it may depend upon the current that is being drawn.  But measuring the voltage at the battery is how these measures are obtained, and any battery getting close to 7 volts output is not only running low, but also has little reserve to allow a sudden burst of higher current activity.  Leica's approach seems to be to prevent such burst activities when there is a chance that shots could be lost during an open-ended burst of exposures or a long video scene.  Other makers let their cameras simply stop when the power runs low, leading to corrupted images or unreadable video.. It seems that the voltage that triggers this warning is measured somewhere deeper inside the camera, since the warning appears at different estimated battery levels with different lenses.  Apparently some of the Sigma and Lumix L-mount lenses draw more current away from the camera than Leica thought they could, leaving less voltage to run the image processing electronics.  

TL;DR summary -- it's a hardware issue, not firmware.

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[Jim B]

1 hour ago, RBB said:

I had a email conversation with Leica about the issue, they claim it's a problem with Sigma, Sigma adapted and Panasonic lenses, that's not completly true because I also use the 24-90 VE and when the battery drops below 25% I get the same "insufficient power" message, but yes Sigma and Pansonic are worse. Leica have no answer and no solution. Have just downloaded the new firmware voor the 24-90 (is meanly about linear manual focus) but you never know. Thats brings no solution for the other lenses. I understand from SL2-s buyers that the problem doesn't exist on the new camera. If I get the new one and trade in the old one I wil lose at lot of money. It is unbelievable that we bought a camera that doesn't deliver. Sounds like buying a car and when the gas tank gets below 50% you can't go the fourth and fifth gear. If Nikon or Canon had an issue like this the whole photo community would explode. Looks like we all accept it, because it stays very quiet. For now I only can wait on new firmware to arrive and hope that Leica takes care about it.

Leica’s response is completely untrue. My sl2 exhibits this error message at 75% battery with a Leica Sl90mm  Apo lens.  

[aksclix]

I agree that this issue needs to be taken seriously by Leica! At 25% if it does this it’s completely understandable but at 75% battery left, this behavior utter nonsense! I had to buy 2 extra batteries at 275 USD each just to mitigate this issue 

Also, even if it’s a hardware issue, it’s the software that is throwing the error and it appears to be a fairly simple fix but I am just an end user unaware of the challenges..

I guess they will address it in SL3 when it comes out 

[caissa]

There is a cheaper solution. Here again (I wrote it several times before).  Use a battery bank with USB PD. They are less expensive than a internal battery and contain a lot of energy (several times as much).

I successfully use an Anker 26800 PD+. If you search in this forum you will find others with other battery banks. I use it since last winter and never saw the warning again. (In winter it can be tugged away in the coat pockets, so it is easy to carry.)

Edited December 21, 2020 by caissa

[scott kirkpatrick]

3 hours ago, Jim B said:

Leica’s response is completely untrue. My sl2 exhibits this error message at 75% battery with a Leica Sl90mm  Apo lens.  

I'm afraid I can't duplicate your problem.  I ran the battery on my SL2 down to 50%, and then shot highest speed continuous exposure for 20 shots with the SL 90-280, and 20 more with the SL 35 APO-SC.  No error flagged, and exposures were fine.

[hillavoider]

Leica should be crucified for this, i haven't used 4K recording for a year now, it was xmas last year that this error started getting posted on here. 

Leica also LIED openly about the SL2 having eye detection when its got nothing close, thats FALSE ADVERTISING LEICA! 

unfortunately this SL2 has turned out to be one of the worst decisions i've made as the resale is garbage 

[Photoworks]

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1 hour ago, hillavoider said:

Leica should be crucified for this, i haven't used 4K recording for a year now, it was xmas last year that this error started getting posted on here. 

Leica also LIED openly about the SL2 having eye detection when its got nothing close, thats FALSE ADVERTISING LEICA! 

unfortunately this SL2 has turned out to be one of the worst decisions i've made as the resale is garbage 

💩

[Syu]

I had the same problem and had to prepare two batteries for it.

And the problem doesn't happen repeatedly, and you can't expect when it will happen. At first, I speculated that it might be related to the cold temperature, until once there was a warning in the room. It's a ghost problem.

[RBB]

16 hours ago, caissa said:

There is a cheaper solution. Here again (I wrote it several times before).  Use a battery bank with USB PD. They are less expensive than a internal battery and contain a lot of energy (several times as much).

Works is studio or friendly environment, when there is dust or rain, I prefer to keep the gasket closed. Think about buying the Nitcore charger (despite the shortcomings), change the battery before getting the message and charge a battery on the way by using the powerbank. It should work with three batteries.

17 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

TL;DR summary -- it's a hardware issue, not firmware.

If it’s really a hardware problem and (apparently) it’s solved with the SL2-2, they should plan a recall and repair the SL2 cameras. I can't imagine Leica knowingly selling faulty cameras knowing there is no fix. I believe it’s about priority and a lack of cooperation between the l-mount partners. Besides that, there is no logic whatsoever why one lens is more affected than another.

See my experience so far,

Panasonic 70-200 f/2.8, below 50% when you’re really lucky, this is a pain because I use it for wildlife and birds (with 2x teleconverter). Probably uses a lot of power due to IOS and the amount of glass to be moved.

Sigma 105mm f/2.8 DG DN macro, below 30%, it’s no problem, never use burst or AFC for this lens, but very strange because no power consuming IOS.

Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN, below 60%, very annoying, also very strange because no power consuming IOS, I can't explain why the issue is so more present on the 85mm than on the 105mm?? Firmware?

Sigma 28mm f/1.4, this is the best performing Sigma lens on this topic, old design and keeps going until below 15%??

Leica VE 24-90mm f/2.8-4 (with new firmware, did the test again today), my most used lens and it’s keeps going until below 15% or so, just like the Sigma 105mm. This is not a real problem for me, below 15 or 10% ok. Older design, lot of glass to move and power consuming IOS. The new lens firmware did not improve this issue.

I did the test on all of the lenses with continuous high speed, not on very high speed.

Funny thing, I haver test it several times, when you get the “insufficient power” message you still can use bracketing, a burst of five shoots, with 1/3 compensation, again and again filling the buffer??

The result of my test makes me think it is a combination and lens and body firmware and therefore a lack of priority and cooperation between the l-mount partners.

I know there was a lot of discussion about the SL2 battery design and capacity. I compered it with the battery of my Panasonic S5, roughly the same size (properly same factory), Leica BP-SCL4 1860mAh, Panasonic DMW-BLK22 2200mAH. I am not a technician, but it looks like there is still room for improvement without changing its size.

I don’t need twenty fps burst shooting, otherwise I bought a different camera, but sometimes need a six or eight fps burst.

[aksclix]

I have a question about using the power bank to power the SL2. I tried it when my power was low and the alert was ON making me unable to shoot burst or video.. I tried using the power bank during this time but it didn’t help and the alert was still coming on.. what am I doing wrong? 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Think of the power subsystem as having two parts -- one the camera and the second the recharging circuits from outside.  The error message that stops multiple shot drive settings is based on a voltage seen somewhere inside, and can't see the external power source.  So to make the message go away you have to wait until the battery has regained a higher charge level, and then hope that the external power keeps it there.

[aksclix]

Thanks @scott kirkpatrick.. I was afraid that was going to be the case.. so this is not really a solution because you shouldn’t have to wait to shoot at any point in time.. I have 3 batteries anyway and I just ordered the nitecore usb charger as well.. I guess having a spare full battery at all times is key  

[scott kirkpatrick]

Well, add external power BEFORE the problem, arises and you won't need to stop and swap batteries.  For stills, having a pocket full of $200 batteries is an option, but for video, reliable external power seems essential.

[aksclix]

Ok, but I am not quite certain the battery power indicator is all that reliable.. I have seen the battery shows full sometimes and just at 75% sometimes.. 

I’ll try this next time.. it’s been a while since I’ve had a field day with a lot of shooting 😁

Here’s my setup 

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[RBB]

5 hours ago, aksclix said:

I have 3 batteries anyway and I just ordered the nitecore usb charger as well.. I guess having a spare full battery at all times is key

Ordered the Nitecore, should arrive tomorrow, I am curious how long it takes to charge the battery on the way. Will post the results.

[bherman01545]

The NITECORE USB charger takes approximately 2/3 as long as the Leica charger (unscientific measurement) 

I typically plug it into an Anker AC to USB charging block rather that plug it into my PC’s USB port whenever possible.

-Brad

[michali]

I've purchased a couple of extra batteries & also carry a Nitecor USB Travel Charger charger in the bag which charges the batteries off the Zendure Power Bank  I'm happy with the Nitecore, no issues encountered. 

The Zendure can also power the SL2 via the USBC port.

The other option of course is to purchase an SL2 Battery Grip.

c

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[Slender]

On 12/22/2020 at 9:32 AM, RBB said:

Leica VE 24-90mm f/2.8-4 (with new firmware, did the test again today), my most used lens and it’s keeps going until below 15% or so, just like the Sigma 105mm. This is not a real problem for me, below 15 or 10% ok. Older design, lot of glass to move and power consuming IOS. The new lens firmware did not improve this issue.

Old design? in the realm of leica this is a brand new lens... And there is only one tiny lens that moves for focusing (hence no breathing at all.... yeah!!!!) and another single element if you use image stabilisation. That's all.

All the new summicrons SL move 2 elements or more. The heavy liftling of glass elements crown goes to the Summilux SL. And with M lenses you have to move it ALL forward yourself 🤓

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[Yuhau]

I am in the market for the SL2 or SL2S and of course the battery issue will be one of my main concerns.   I intend to freely  use  any of the L Alliance lenses (with no worries ), supported by the three CEOs of the three companies . 

So far my concern is not so much as what the battery indicator says ( 75 %or 25%  )  but rather: 

the number of shots or the time you can shoot the 4K with that lens set up from that  fully charged battery. 

After I can get a reasonable number of  shots on that lens set up say 300-400 or the appropriate mins on the 4K or bursts , what the battery indicator say does not matter. The battery should reflect a low percentage . 

In other words If that particular lens set up gave you the the right performance  ( meaning the number of shots / min etc ) then the software / firmware should reflect the low %. and give warning  message accordingly . Following the same analogy when  you  change back  to one of those more  efficient lens then I would  expect the battery should change back to a higher % to allow further shooting .     

Let the battery indicate what you can use it for with the set up ( namely 4K or Sigma L lens etc) . The battery is for you to shoot .

Don't treat it as an independent entity. The battery  percentage does not mean anything if you don't  have sufficient power for that setup .

Hence I see the  solution  is on  Leica correcting firmware to put in the algorithm smartly to reflect the appropriate battery status for that camera / lens set up . ( 75%--you have a way to go or 10%  -- you are almost done)  

On the other hand, using the above suggestion . we can tell easily the performance yield of what lens or set up will give out of that fully charged battery.  Correction  can be then applied to the lens or set up easily.

Just my 2 cents worth  

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 12/28/2020 at 2:47 PM, bherman01545 said:

The NITECORE USB charger takes approximately 2/3 as long as the Leica charger (unscientific measurement) 

...

-Brad

The Leica charger has two phases, fast charge to 80% and then a slower rate charge until full.  The Nitecore does one charge rate, so it is faster, but stops sooner (which may not be a bad idea).  If you want 100% charge on the Nitecore, take the battery out when it first stops, then reinsert and let it charge some more until it stops again.

Edited December 29, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick