Which filter for Landscape with SEM21 and Monochrome 246

[newnew]

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I would like to hear from experiences of Landscape pictures with SEM 21 (or similar) on Monochrome. From some previous treads I hear that overall the colour filters as Orange or Yellow on Monochromes do not modify much the tonalities as it would happen on film. On the other side there is some "feeling" that the sharpness is being degraded with these filters, while an IR filter would actually increase it to what the best of the sensor can deliver.

I would be glad to hear your thoughts in the matter.

Best

Edited October 11, 2020 by newnew

[UliWer]

How much a certain filter would modify tonality always depends on the lighting and the colours of your object. With film it will also depend on your developing as well as it will depend on which sliders you move in your raw converter if you use a digital sensor. 

So I should not trust any generalization about differences between film and digital if you use the same filters  as long as you don't see the results exactly side by side and the photographer tells you exactly how he developed the film and used the raw converter.

With normal filters for b+w of good quality you will not see any degradation of sharpness. IR-filters are competely different, as they block almost all light you see with your eyes and only let pass infrared. You can achieve special effects with them but you cannot use them for "normal" landscape photography. 

The best you can do is trying which results you get with different filters for a given object with the same lighting.  

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[UliWer]

If you like some examples - of course no landscape, all taken with the 50 Summilux asph at f/2.8; no changes in Lightroom.

First the colors from the M10:

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Now M10 Monchrom without filter:

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by UliWer

[UliWer]

Monochrom with light yellow filter (B+W 022):

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Monochrom with dark yellow filter (B+W 023)

[UliWer]

Now the same procedure with the 21mm Super-Elmar-M - strong crop from the center:

M10 color:

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M10 Moncochrom, no filter:

 

[UliWer]

M10 Monochrom with light yellow (B+W 022):

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with dark yellow (B+W 023):

 

[marcg]

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The only remarkable difference is the change in the blue colour.

And in fact that's the reason why one would use the filter – which is to darken the skies and maybe highlight the contrast between the blue sky and clouds

[UliWer]

Yes, blues darkening with grades of yellow filters. Reds brightening, which may add some tonal distinctions. But yellow loosing its distinction from white - if you look at the „bird‘s“ bill in the first series - which often is not so good. 

So filters as everything else in photography have to be used with a clear concept of what you want to achieve. There is no general rule.

Edited October 11, 2020 by UliWer

[dkmoore]

I like the orange filter on the M10M for portraits as I like the results of skin tones and rendering. 
 

Landscapes I often vary between no filter, yellow, and orange depending on what I’m trying to accomplish. I tend to go either orange or no filter more often then yellow as yellow doesn’t change much. 
 

I use a green filter occasionally while in the woods but wouldn’t use often or especially for typical landscape shots. 

[Ken Abrahams]

For landscapes I might use a polarising filter and depending on the colour of the sky, an orange filter. Neutral density filters for long exposures and water movement is nice, 6 stop or 10 stop ND. If using both polarising and ND filter I would then attach the ND externally with Nisi filter holder

[newnew]

Thank you all for your comments. Thanks Uli Wer for the detailed pictures and comparison. Therefore with the Monochrome , so far the use of the filters do not differ much from what we used to have for B&W (I am talking for midrange general effects), except that the effect may be a bit dampened. Looks like the orange filter is the most useful. What about the use of UV/IR filters as Leica was providing them for M8 ? Any specific experience on the Monochrome with and without ? (I am not talking IR photography but the filters that cut IR).

[jaapv]

One thing: with the precision of present monochrome digital rangefinders, stronger filters show focus shift on non-Apo lenses, more so than on film. Even orange may exhibit a small amount in critical situations, but red will certainly do.

[newnew]

Do you mean that with the strong coloured filter on , the focusing with the RF will not be 100% accurate ? (versus the Visoflex)

[jaapv]

Correct. It depends on the lens. An Apo lens will not show this effect, other lenses in varying amounts, depending on the level of correction of chromatic aberration of the lens - and on the shift by the filter into the lower frequencies of the light. It is not a show-stopper, but something you must be aware of and compensate for in some situations.

[newnew]

Thanks . This is physics but one does not always think about it.

[tgray]

On 10/12/2020 at 4:48 AM, jaapv said:

Correct. It depends on the lens. An Apo lens will not show this effect, other lenses in varying amounts, depending on the level of correction of chromatic aberration of the lens - and on the shift by the filter into the lower frequencies of the light. It is not a show-stopper, but something you must be aware of and compensate for in some situations.

To concur, it’s worth some quick testing with your lenses. Some lenses are fine with red filters on the monochrom cameras, some show significant focus shift which can be compensated for with live view (ex. 28 Summicron), and some can’t focus at all (ex. ZM 50 Sonnar - not surprising given its design and normal focus shift issues). 
 

With my lenses, yellow filters were fine with all of them, orange was mostly okay (maybe some shift with the 28 Summicron?), and red was where it started to become an issue more frequently. 

[pgk]

'Contrast' filters work by blocking out light and the area which would have been exposed by the light which has been blocked will be darker. The original intent was that progressively, yellow, orange and red would increasingly darken blue skies if shooting landscapes. The same will happen on a full colour sensor with monochrome output. So depending on the sky and your intent any one of these three may be useful. At the smaller apertures used for landscape photography (usually), I would be surprised if focus shift was a problem myself even though digital sensors are more sensitive to focus shift than film was.

[eawriter]

Red roses and green leaves. From left to right: No filter, red filter, green filter. The filters noticeably affect the tones of both the flowers and the leaves. Monochrom Typ 246, 35mm Summilux

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[AceVentura1986]

In my experience, yellow is nearly useless. I used orange as my regular filter for most photos and red for landscapes. I find red darkens the sky nicely. Image below was shot on a M9M with a 50 Summicron, two stacked ND filters and one red filter. 

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[Ccoppola82]

I think having a basic understanding of the color wheel and ability to view a scene and identify which colors are going to be impacted is very important.  To keep it simple, filters just lighten their own colors in a scene and darken their compliment (whatever color is opposite on the color wheel). So which filter to choose depends entirely on the scene. A lush green landscape will look poor with a strong red filter as green is the opposite of red and would end up with a dark sky against dark green leaves.  Yet in a landscape scene with mountains the same red filter might really make the mountain stand out while darkening the sky.  I personally go between a yellow K2 and a yellow green depending on the scene.  The yellow green I generally use in summer due to the lush greens.  The yellow k2 stays on most other times as my general purpose filter. I only use orange or red for specific purposes.  Also, I generally appreciate subtlety in my images and don’t feel the need for shocking color contrast shifts. Most contrast control is done in the darkroom or Lightroom.