Skylight filters

[martinot]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Not really. 450 Euros equivalent then is probably the same as 1000 Euros now...

Well, most good filters are about 100€, so about filters for only 10 lenses and your equal.

[jaapv]

34 minutes ago, martinot said:

Well, most good filters are about 100€, so about filters for only 10 lenses and your equal.

Really? Somebody is ripping you off... https://www.foto-huppert.de/filter/uv-und-schutzfilter/clear-schutzfilter-007/

[darylgo]

31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Really? Somebody is ripping you off... https://www.foto-huppert.de/filter/uv-und-schutzfilter/clear-schutzfilter-007/

Leica E82 UVa II Filter (Black)   $395⁰⁰

^{https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=leica uv II&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma}

 

[jaapv]

Yes - did you know that most filters branded Leica are made by B+W ? So the red-dot markup in this case is over 300$. I think you just provided proof for my post.

 

 

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[darylgo]

Filters run the gamut from inexpensive to crazy expensive for stills photography, cinema is another world with prices a multiple of what we pay.  All the theory on filters is fine but we take pictures with our lenses, it doesn't take much effort to see that a single filter has minimal impact on the image, if any.  Skylights, uv, thick, thin, it doesn't make any difference.  I use single coated filters on single coated lenses, I have looked at images shot with and without and can not see a difference at any magnification up to 2:1. 

Markup on filters is large at all levels of sales, the distributor and retailer make a good profit, this keeps our camera stores and salespeople in business, many years ago selling a camera became a lost leader.  Sell the camera at cost and get the customer to buy one or more of the myriad of accessories available.  When film and processing became unnecessary, the camera stores ceased to exist, many of the best  camera manufacturers fell by the wayside, Kodak went from a Dow 30 component to bankruptcy.  So, I hope this gives some perspective on the lowly filter, it ain't just for protecting your lens.  

Btw- that Leica UVa II filter was the highest rated filter in Roger Cicala's filter evaluation, I am a bit surprised that B+W makes the filters for Leica, nonetheless, it is to Leica's specs if it rates above B+W and everyone else.  

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by darylgo

[Einst_Stein]

On 8/28/2020 at 12:13 PM, dabrez said:

I sometimes think we are debating marketing terms, not technical definitions when it comes to a products "high-Impact-resistantance." Is there a scientific measurement of "Impact-resistantance on these filters?" If so then we can compare the difference between the two filters and make logical decisions not emotional ones. Any impact on glass can cause issues, the impact may create a scratch or shatter the filter. But my goal is only having to take the filter off and replace it with a new one. Hopefully mylens survives unaffected.

My biggest concerns are more with the transmission curves than impact resistance. The difference between the 007 and 010UV is minimal.

Taking the cell phone LCD protection as reference, "impact resistance protection glass" or "scratch resistance" does exist. They are cheap and work great.

What I don;'t know is the optical/reflection/transmission property.

[michali]

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On 8/29/2020 at 10:13 PM, pgk said:

Since I have the bad habit of cleaning my lenses with the nearest usable thing to hand (my fleece pullover today for example) I find filters essential or my lenses would be trashed. They are good protection against owners like myself.

+1 completely agree.  Filters have been placed on all of my lenses going back to film days from the 1970s, due to a tricky combination of the user & some of the environments I've worked in. The only 2 brands I've ever used are B&W & a couple of Heliopan (esp. when I've needed odd sizes).  

[250swb]

I kind of hope my M10 isn't going to explode or something because I use whatever combination I have of UV or 'protection' filters instead of using a lens cap. I also clean them with whatever is at hand if I can't find a lens cloth.

If it's a question of colour fidelity people commit far greater hellish crimes by using a polariser or ND filter, a ZM or CV lens, or an old uncoated lens, all of which affect the 'built in' colour fidelity of a Leica sensor far more than a UV filter does. Why, you'll even get a different colour response between two generations of Leica lenses. So don't throw your UV filters away or replace them at great expense, to quote Gandalf "there are more forces at work in this world Frodo besides the marketing department of B+W".

Edited August 31, 2020 by 250swb

[jaapv]

13 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I kind of hope my M10 isn't going to explode or something because I use whatever combination I have of UV or 'protection' filters instead of using a lens cap. I also clean them with whatever is at hand if I can't find a lens cloth.

If it's a question of colour fidelity people commit far greater hellish crimes by using a polariser or ND filter, a ZM or CV lens, or an old uncoated lens, all of which affect the 'built in' colour fidelity of a Leica sensor far more than a UV filter does. Why, you'll even get a different colour response between two generations of Leica lenses. So don't throw your UV filters away or replace them at great expense, to quote Gandalf "there are other forces at work in this world Frodo besides the marketing department of B+W", except it was re-written for the film script. 

If you want to see the extreme of the effect of colour mismatch put a yellow filter on and attempt to balance the colour rendering to neutral. Make sure to include some red and green traffic lights in the shot. How do I know? - don't ask

[pgk]

On 8/30/2020 at 2:26 AM, darylgo said:

All the theory on filters is fine but we take pictures with our lenses, it doesn't take much effort to see that a single filter has minimal impact on the image, if any.  Skylights, uv, thick, thin, it doesn't make any difference.  I use single coated filters on single coated lenses, I have looked at images shot with and without and can not see a difference at any magnification up to 2:1.

The qualities inherent in a 'good' filter are that it should have minimal light absorption, be thin, have parallel faces and be mounted as perpendicular as possible to the lens axis. Its not asking all that much really. The mix of good optical properties and good engineering are not difficult with today's precision manufacturing. that said I detest filters which bind on (poorly anodised and rough ly finished usually) or which impose a colour cast (Pola and ND filters can). But in general filters from 'reputable' manufactures give results indistinguishable from those produced from a filterless lens. So we have to pay good money for nothing😁. I'm more than happy to use decent filters for physical protection though.

[dabrez]

14 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Taking the cell phone LCD protection as reference, "impact resistance protection glass" or "scratch resistance" does exist. They are cheap and work great.

What I don;'t know is the optical/reflection/transmission property.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, jdlaing said:

https://schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-optics/b-w-filters/filtertypes/vorlage/uv-clear

Follow the link above and scroll down the page for the transmission curves of the various B+W filters.

Hope it helps.

[Einst_Stein]

36 minutes ago, dabrez said:

 

Follow the link above and scroll down the page for the transmission curves of the various B+W filters.

Hope it helps.

You misunderstand the point. I am talking about the optical quality of the impact/scratch resistance (LCD protection) glass. 

[jdlaing]

7 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

You misunderstand the point. I am talking about the optical quality of the impact/scratch resistance (LCD protection) glass. 

Whatever for? 
 

https://www.corning.com/gorillaglass/worldwide/en/technology/technology-overview.html

[dabrez]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought we were discussing camera filters.

[Einst_Stein]

The widely known LCD protection glass (Gorilla glass) is initially made by Corning. Coring also makes many variations of it.  Generally they have high refractive index and high Abbe value. These are two important properties for making lens. These make it thinner and lighter. Combined with the impact resistance to protect the eyes,  my impression these are THE material for making lens glass. 

If used for camera lens, it should have potential to make the lens smaller and lighter and stronger.I am curious why it is not popular in the camera lens. 

Same argument for lens filters.

  

Edited September 1, 2020 by Einst_Stein

[jdlaing]

Gorilla glass is not used for lens elements. It can’t be ground and polished like lens glass. Lens glass also has special formulations.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Whatever for? 
 

https://www.corning.com/gorillaglass/worldwide/en/technology/technology-overview.html

That's what I thought why not popular among camera lenses.

[Good To Be Retired]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:17 PM, WPCello said:

I generally use an E. Leitz N.Y SL filter primarily for protection as I live in a marine environment

My personal opinion, nothing more.

Filter use for digital cameras is a very popular topic on photographic forums.  It's also a very polarizing (sorry, couldn't resist  ) issue for large numbers of photographers.  You don't find very many people in the middle ground.  Google the subject and you'll find a gazillion threads from just as many self proclaimed photographic experts all claiming that their opinion is the only correct position.  (Ask 5 photographers the same question and you can pretty much bet you're going to get 6 different answers  )   I suggest you give careful consideration to the source when somebody gives you an unequivocal pronouncement regarding any aspect of filter use, or at least investigate their credentials.

On the other hand, if you wish to visit the Lensrentals website and search for some of their articles it might be a worthwhile exercise.  These folks are regarded by many as being an authoritative source on several issues and in my personal opinion they are a worthwhile read.

Regarding the use case you sited for your personal photography, I would suggest that this is one of the most widely mentioned situations where a protective filter is more generally considered beneficial.  Airborne contaminates strikes me as a perfect argument for a protective filter.  So does the previous poster who sited using something potentially damaging to clean the lens.  Different arguments can be made for the benefit/drawback of using filters for lens element protection, with examples sited where a lens was saved by a filter or a lens could possibly have been damaged by a filter.

My purely personal viewpoint is that the best procedure would be to avoid cheap filters, select filters with modern coatings, and be aware that certain situations are more likely to cause problems than others.  Using filters at night, for instance, may increase the opportunity for increased reflections from the additional glass surface.

I rather prefer clear glass filters on digital rather than UV/Skylight filters, which were originally used to correct specific issues when using color film.  If you're a film shooter then depending on your shooting situation a UV filter may be a better choice than a clear one.

My suggestion, however, is that rather than give overly much consideration to my opinion or anybody else's, is to test for yourself.  Use a tripod and make one exposure with your filter and one without and pick the result you prefer based on your experience for your photography.

I bet you a beer that you can't tell the difference

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Good To Be Retired

[Viv]

I use plain glass filters, not UV.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Good To Be Retired]

Actually, having responded specifically in regard to Skylight/UV filters and digital cameras in general, I looked down at my desk and noticed that both the Leica lenses there current are wearing Leica UV/IR filters, so go figure.