21mm lenses

[Dennis]

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48 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

You can 6 bit code other lenses. Almost all my lenses are 6 bit coded except the Zeiss 35mm because it doesn't need one. You can either paint or replace the flange for about 30€, this is what I did to my lenses. 

The focus tab is a personal preference. I don't like it and prefer the knurled feel of the Voigtlanders. I don't like the Zeiss tab either.

The aesthetic is a personal preference as well, but it won't help take better pictures.

As for better value, I'm not 100% sure, in the end if you buy a Zeiss, 7Artisans or Voiglander you're saving money right now, and in some cases you're saving over 10 times the price compared to a Leica equivalent.

For the Voigtlanders, I'd say any recent Voigtlander is either on par or better than Leica's current offering.

The 75mm 1.5 is a fine example: 350g, 62.8 x 63.3 mm, 1000€, a tiny amount of glow wide open, perfect for portraits, and super sharp stopped down. But if you want to spend 15k for the Noctilux, sure, go on 

I get your point, and I respect it. I never tried, saw, or have in my hands, any other lens that is not the two I own. So I can't tell you my truth right now until I'll try. Maybe I'll become a Voigtlander shooter, who knows. The time will say. 
But there are many factors to consider before purchasing a lens. I know I can 6-bit coding a non-leica glass as well, or change the flange. But it's not the same the buying a new lens, ready for the use and correctly recognized by the camera, with no extra correction or adjustment. The warranties etc. I like kinds of stuff in its original shape and form. I don't want to hack, especially if Leica could be a tool for my work, not just for fun. 
But I'm an RF newbie, so I'll understand with try and error, with experience and your advices 🙏

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The aesthetic is a personal preference as well, but it won't help take better pictures.

Of course. I don't care about the status quo of shooting with Leica, and I 100% agree with you that won't help to make a better photo. But said all above, at the very end, the aesthetic of a Leica glass wins over all the other brand, IMHO. 

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[Cobram]

14 hours ago, omalat said:

I don't know about the new Voigtlander but I used to have the old Color Skopar 21mm f4 and it was tiny, super sharp and a joy. It was great on the old M8 and M6 but on the full frame digital cameras I found it could be very hit and miss with metering. You should consider a Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8. It is bigger than the Voigtlander and Leica but a deluxe product and relatively cheap. Also takes the same size filters as your 28 and your 50 and it has no problems with M meters.

I did consider Zeiss but based on my experience with 35 1.4 distagon I expect Zeiss to be too contrasty for my needs. I do think Zeiss sharpness is extraordinary but size and color palette are two main drawbacks keeping me away of Zeiss options.

I want a lens with similar rendering to my Summicron 28 and LUX ASPH 50. 

Topic about 24mm Elmar vs Elmarit is very interesting. I realized Elmarit rendering is also very nice, somehow just a little bit on the cooler side comparing to Elmar.

From few photo examples posted on web as well as Ashwin Rao's review  seems the new Nokton 1.4 is sharp AND fast. Color rendering is similar to Nokton 50 1.2 I used to own. Not Summilux but very close. Maybe I'm wrong but based on all comments, photos etc I think:

 - Nokton 21 1.4 is best bang for the buck. Fast (night and indoor shots), nice rendering, sharp stopped down (landscape shots) and affordable. Size is the main drawback.

 - SEM 21 - best image quality (sharpness, color rendering, sparkle, b&W) but also more expensive and slower than Nokton. Indoor shots can be a big challenge. 

 

Still want to see more photo examples from Nokton. Especially landscape shots at infinity. If CA is well controlled and there is not much flare, than I think we have a winner :-)

 

[pgk]

14 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The aesthetic is a personal preference as well, but it won't help take better pictures.

If you include 'handling' within this (as it should be) then it can help.

[lct]

3 hours ago, Cobram said:

I want a lens with similar rendering to my Summicron 28 and LUX ASPH 50

Among my own lenses, no doubt the better candidate is the Super-Elmar 21/3.4 asph. Elmarit 21/2.8 asph has a bit less micro contrast but matches well your lenses as well. May look less "clinical" than the SEM but it is also bigger and is not totally immune from color shifts on my M240. Not a serious issue with 6-bit coding though and even less so on the M10 i've been told. If you're on budget the Skopar 21/3.5 does fine too but i have too little experience on FF with it as i use it mainly on the digital CL. FWIW.

[jdlaing]

Konica Hexanon Dual 21-35mm

 

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[Keith (M)]

Decision made earlier this week (at last), so Friday noon ordered the 21mm SEM from Red Dot (London) and it arrived mid-morning today (Saturday).  Some quick shots in the house on my M240 (mainly for any signs of 'Italian-flag' syndrome - none apparent) and of colour response.  Below is one at MFD & f3.4, then a 100% crop.

I then transferred it to my M10M.  See post #1255 in the M Monochrom/Images thread for some results from a brief local walk.

Am I pleased?  No, I am absolutely delighted!     It is everything I had hoped for in a very wide angle lens.

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Edited June 20, 2020 by Keith (M)

[newnew]

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Despite its initial entry cost, the added value of the SEM should not be under estimated. In the case of resale it will always keep a better value. If a proper financing way can be found it is definitely a longer term better investment in picture and monetary quality. This lens has always given me satisfaction in landscapes as well as in street photography. paired with an M240 there are very few cases that it could not be used, sometimes with the push of a good PP. See some examples here :

 

[luisrq]

36 minutes ago, newnew said:

Despite its initial entry cost, the added value of the SEM should not be under estimated. In the case of resale it will always keep a better value. If a proper financing way can be found it is definitely a longer term better investment in picture and monetary quality. This lens has always given me satisfaction in landscapes as well as in street photography. paired with an M240 there are very few cases that it could not be used, sometimes with the push of a good PP. See some examples here :

 

9

35 minutes ago, newnew said:

Despite its initial entry cost, the added value of the SEM should not be under estimated. In the case of resale it will always keep a better value. If a proper financing way can be found it is definitely a longer term better investment in picture and monetary quality. This lens has always given me satisfaction in landscapes as well as in street photography. paired with an M240 there are very few cases that it could not be used, sometimes with the push of a good PP. See some examples here :

 

Great pictures, great tones transition, I love them all, specially the third one. 

My widest lenses are Elmar it 21 and Elmarit 24 Asph, I also have the Elmarit 28 Asph. The 24 is a great lens, but it compete with the 28 and the difference with the 21 is not big, the 21 allows more spectacular views, the 24 has a great correction and it is very sharp. 

[m410]

10 hours ago, Keith (M) said:

Decision made earlier this week (at last), so Friday noon ordered the 21mm SEM from Red Dot (London) and it arrived mid-morning today (Saturday).  Some quick shots in the house on my M240 (mainly for any signs of 'Italian-flag' syndrome - none apparent) and of colour response.  Below is one at MFD & f3.4, then a 100% crop.

I then transferred it to my M10M.  See post #1255 in the M Monochrom/Images thread for some results from a brief local walk.

Am I pleased?  No, I am absolutely delighted!     It is everything I had hoped for in a very wide angle lens.

 

Congratulations on your new purchase of the 21mm SEM.  I am sure it will become one of your favorite lenses.  It is definitely one of mine.  

Cheers.

[tgray]

On 6/18/2020 at 3:56 PM, Keith (M) said:

Marginal gains...

With ref to my post #40, either the f3.5 Color-Skopar or SEM will feel somewhat featherweight in comparison to my current 21mm usage - 600g of 21-35 Vario Elmar-R + R to M adaptor.  My hesitation over the Color-Skopar is whether or not it is capable of doing justice to the M10M's sensor.

I’ve heard good things about the Voigtlander. On the other hand, I think you can still pick up the Zeiss ZM 21/4.5 new. Excellent lens on the Monochrom cameras, including the M10M. 

[Cobram]

17 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Konica Hexanon Dual 21-35mm

 

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Dear jdlaing:

When you first mentioned dual Hhexanon I peformed web research about this lens. Indeed it is one of the best wide angle M mount lenses and your photo is a proof of its sharpness and beautiful color rendition. And very important - two lenses in one. 21 + 35... match made in heaven.

There are not many for sell and prices are quite high...

[Keith (M)]

3 hours ago, Cobram said:

Dear jdlaing:

When you first mentioned dual Hhexanon I peformed web research about this lens. Indeed it is one of the best wide angle M mount lenses and your photo is a proof of its sharpness and beautiful color rendition. And very important - two lenses in one. 21 + 35... match made in heaven.

There are not many for sell and prices are quite high...

If 21 + 35mm is of interest, you could consider the 21-35mm Vario Elmar-R and have everything in between!  E. Puts rates it very highly indeed, writing that its performance equals that of equivalent primes.  I occasionally use it with M240 but nowadays find the 600g of lens plus adaptor uncomfortable to carry around.  Example result with M240 @ 21mm:-

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Edited June 21, 2020 by Keith (M)

[Steve Ash]

This thread triggered me to give my SEM more attention again. Here are some shots from yesterday.

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[Steve Ash]

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[Steve Ash]

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[Steve Ash]

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[jdlaing]

6 hours ago, Cobram said:

Dear jdlaing:

When you first mentioned dual Hhexanon I peformed web research about this lens. Indeed it is one of the best wide angle M mount lenses and your photo is a proof of its sharpness and beautiful color rendition. And very important - two lenses in one. 21 + 35... match made in heaven.

There are not many for sell and prices are quite high...

It is a pleasure to use.

[Joakim]

21 hours ago, newnew said:

Despite its initial entry cost, the added value of the SEM should not be under estimated. In the case of resale it will always keep a better value. If a proper financing way can be found it is definitely a longer term better investment in picture and monetary quality.

Well this is speculation and not the truth, the CV 21/3.5 is so new we don't know what its long term value will be for instance and one might argue that if the SEM loses more in value than the initial cost of the CV does it even matter how well the SEM holds it value? 

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[newnew]

7 minutes ago, Joakim said:

the CV 21/3.5 is so new we don't know what its long term value will be

versus SEM which is starting to be legendary. But I agree that we might be both speculating !

[Cobram]

I'm pretty sure CV will never catch Leica resale value... cause Leica is not only photo equipment piece but also a collector item.

Still as a amateur photographer (not collector ☺️ ) Nokton 21 1.4 seems to me a very nice alternative to Leica offerings. And in everyday life it is maybe a better photographic tool (low light performance + stopped down sharpness?). Now of course there is also a psychological effect (euphoria) owning indeed a very good item, spending less and thinking (or just wishing) it is the same quality as original ☺️.

I hope any Nokton owner will post some photo examples at 1.4 - 2.0 and 4.0-5.6 so we can check color rendition and sharpness as well as micro-contrast of this new kid on the block.