Elmer-M 50mm/2.8 on M10M

[Drmat]

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Curious if anyone has experience with the later model Elmer 50 on the M10M.  For context I will share that I already have a 50 lux.  The size intrigues me.  If you have used one I would love to hear the thoughts.

[otto.f]

I don’t have the M10M but the MM1 and I’m extremely happy the Elmar-M 50/2.8 on it. I even sold my Summilux 50 asph since I own it. Very good choice on a hike for instance, I had it with me on a trip through the Andes. It’s razor sharp, I print A2 landscapes made with it and they are very sharp. I sometimes wonder what the 50 APO could do better at F4 in print. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by otto.f

[Drmat]

@otto.fThanks for the insight.  Exactly my thoughts - good for a hike.

[Stealth3kpl]

5 hours ago, Drmat said:

Curious if anyone has experience with the later model Elmer 50 on the M10M.  For context I will share that I already have a 50 lux.  The size intrigues me.  If you have used one I would love to hear the thoughts.

The first Leica I bought was the M8.2 and it came with the later 50mm Elmar-M. I no longer have it but is incredibly sharp lens. I now use the older 50 Elmar which is also a good performer but I often think of getting another Elmar-M. Consider it might need calibrating for digital when buying one.

Pete

[Drmat]

@Stealth3kpl thanks.  The calibrating might be a challenge these days.  Certainly a consideration.  Any issues collapsing the lens into the M8?  Does anyone know if the M10 has the clearance to fully collapse the lens?

[a.noctilux]

Elmar-M 2.8/50 can be fully retracted in the M10 (or every other M minus M5) .

Take care not to mount/unmount the Elmar-M collapsed, as it may hit the RF roller cam of the camera.

[onasj]

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I also obtained one for its size.  And it is indeed about as small (and light) as an M-lens can get without being too small to use, in my opinion.  

Optically, it is very good, but not great.  Some noticeable astigmatism and the edges/corners are a bit soft wide open.  For travel snaps it is terrific.  It's (relatively) inexpensive and abundant, as Leica M lenses go.

I've not had any issues mounting or unmounting it while collapsed but I'm slow and careful when mounting any M lens to ensure I approach perpendicular and well-aligned to the mount.

[Drmat]

Thanks all for the information.  I will look into it further.  My only real concern now is collapsing the lens while on the body.  The manual suggests that the lens is not compatible, so I just needed some confirmation.

[Ouroboros]

I don't use a digital Leica, I use a film MP.  I bought my 50mm elmar-m f2.8 at the same time as I bought  a Noctilux v4 back in 2006, originally as a back-up lens for a lighter, more compact carry than the noctilux.  I sold  the noctilux about 6 years ago for a huge profit because I never liked it and couldn't be bothered with it. 

The 50mm elmar-m f2.8 is an absolute star, I've never needed any other 50mm.

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, onasj said:

For travel snaps

This is a bit underrating this lens. A landscape photographer carrying an 8x10 view camera uphill in the seventies with a Schneider Symmar S 5.6/300m on it would have been on cloud nine if he had the possibilities of this lens on a Leica Monochrome of these days. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by otto.f

[Drmat]

You have all convinced me.  Ordering one tomorrow.  I am currently sitting on the 28 and 50 lux and 28 elmarit.  Maybe this will be a nice complement for the latter!  Still trying to figure out my go to focal length.  Bought the 28 lux to replace the 50 lux but found i can not part with a 50 - you need to be 1-2m away from people to get the kind of shots i like with the 28 and it turns out 1-2m is a lot closer than you think (and given the “restrictions” on contact right now, unlikely i get so close)!

Looking forward to the lens.  Just have to stop peeping the pixels.  Everything is a let down since i sold the 50APO.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Drmat

[Drmat]

Just received the Elmar.  Bad luck - for some reason the lens focus is off.  If I test with live view the screen says focus at 6 feet, but using the focus patch is says 5 (the live view is in focus when I look at the images). I also cannot focus at infinity - not possible to get objects at very far distances in focus.  If I stop down to F8 the depth of field catches up with the point of focus.  It is not the camera, as I can focus my 50 lux at F1.4 equally in Live view as with the focus patch.  The dealer has been very good about it and is taking it back.  Really a shame, as I like what the lens can produce when in focus, and the size is great.

Has anyone had this experience with a lens?

[JCR33]

Bought it off a friend almost 20 years ago and admittedly it was not used much as the Lux and Noct were more tempting. Having said that it is very well engineered and built, not to mention how compact it is when collapsed. So cool to look at too. Sorry I don't own an M10M but to show you some images with this lens.

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With M9

 

M240 with macro adaptor

 

 

SL with macro adaptor

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by JCR33

[Drmat]

@JCR33 great shots - that is the look I want.  It is a bit upsetting that the one I purchased does not focus correctly.  I hope that can be repaired.

[otto.f]

9 hours ago, Drmat said:

Has anyone had this experience with a lens?

Yes my first Elmar-M 50 was also silver and had bad focus too. It was not back or front or shifted, it just wasn’t very sharp. I sold it, I suspected that it came from the speciale edition of the M6J which was meant for collectors more than for photographer. My current black version is more recent and is amazingly sharp. If I were you I would not hesitate sending it back indeed. This is not what it should be. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by otto.f

[onasj]

On 6/3/2020 at 4:50 PM, Drmat said:

Just received the Elmar.  Bad luck - for some reason the lens focus is off.  If I test with live view the screen says focus at 6 feet, but using the focus patch is says 5 (the live view is in focus when I look at the images). I also cannot focus at infinity - not possible to get objects at very far distances in focus.  If I stop down to F8 the depth of field catches up with the point of focus.  It is not the camera, as I can focus my 50 lux at F1.4 equally in Live view as with the focus patch.  The dealer has been very good about it and is taking it back.  Really a shame, as I like what the lens can produce when in focus, and the size is great.

Has anyone had this experience with a lens?

Yes, actually!  My copy (black, 372xxxx) also front focused, especially noticeably at longer distances, and also could not reach infinity focus wide open.  I fixed the lens myself and it is perfect now, but it took quite a bit of effort (only worth it for a relatively inexpensive lens if you enjoy such projects). 

The flange bayonet ring (the silver ring that mounts to the body) is unusual for this lens. It has a machined shallow region at smaller radii (closer to the center) that is thinner than the rest of the flange—obvious both by feel and by the fact that it has been machined down and shows the color of the brass, rather than the chrome plating of the rest of the flange.  You can easily remove the flange by unscrewing the six rear screws with a small Phillips screwdriver.  The purpose of this shallow region is to allow a small circular ridge in the rest of the lens to properly mate with the flange without bumping into the flange.  This circular ridge rotates as the lens is focused.

I realized that both the flange and the flange’s shallow region were not shallow enough by a small fraction of a millimeter, which kept the optical cell from being as close to the flange (and thus as close to the sensor) as needed to reach infinity focus.  Incidentally, if the flange’s shallow region is not shallow enough, then the circular ridge will also rub against the flange as you focus the lens, causing a stiffer focusing action.  In fact if you screw on a regular M mount flange onto this lens, you won’t be able to focus the lens at all because a normal M flange lacks the shallow cut-out region and is entirely flat on its backside.  This is why you can’t fix the infinity focus simply by sanding the entire backside of the flange down.

So fix #1 was to carefully sand down the rear of the flange and the shallow region of the flange to move the optics of the lens closer to the sensor.  I used a circular cutter to cut a piece of 300 grit sandpaper of precisely the diameter of the shallow flange region, mounted it with CA glue on a cheap third party flange I had lying around, carefully centering it, then mounted the resulting sanding tool into a cheap M mount rear lens cap.  Now I had a handheld tool that would perfectly sand down the shallow region of the flange to be a bit thinner simply by rotating the tool as I pressed it down on the flange’s backside.  Sanding the entire backside of the flange is very easy—I just rotated the flange on a piece of sandpaper taped to a very flat piece of polished granite (aka a countertop).  After a fair amount of careful sanding, with washing, remounting the flange, and testing in between, I could watch as the infinity focus wide open slowly came back.  One helpful tip that told me when there was no additional improvement to be had is that extending but not locking the lens’s end will also keep the optics slightly closer to the sensor than if you lock the lens’s end, so I kept sanding the flange and the flange’s circular shallow region until there was no additional sharpness benefit to not locking the lens’s end.  Once the flange was the right depth, I used micro mesh sticks (inexpensive, on Amazon) to progressively polish up the flange until it was very smooth—much smoother than the original state of the flange.

Fix #2: Now I had a lens that correctly reached infinity focus, but the rangefinder focusing was still off, causing front focusing when using the rangefinder.  This one was easier to fix: since the cam on the rear of this lens (the part that engages the rangefinder roller) is plain exposed brass and does not rotate, I simply sanded down the part of the cam that contacts the roller.  This part is easily identified as this is also the part of the cam that is closest to the deepest part of the scoop cutout on the flange of any M lens.  I used the micro mesh sticks starting with the coarsest 1500 grit and ending with the finest 12,000 grit, which left a polished finish quite a bit smoother than the original Leica cam!  I was careful to sand the cam lying on my back, keeping the lens inverted, so the metal dust would fall down away from the lens.  I wore a mask to avoid breathing in the dust.  I also covered as much of the lens as possible with blue 3M tape before sanding to prevent any metal dust from getting inside.  Again, I did plenty of testing as I proceeded to ensure I filed down the cam by just the right amount—a small fraction of one millimeter.

After both fixes, the lens now focuses to infinity and the rangefinder focusing is perfect.  Took a lot of time and effort but was a fun project.  I probably wouldn’t have tried it on a more valuable lens.

The fact that your 50/2.8 had the same problem as mine makes me wonder if it is more common than one would think.  The differences between the lens as I received it and the fixed lens are noticeable on a 24 or 40 MP sensor, but might not be that noticeable on film, instead just being attributed to the lens not being the sharpest.  When fixed, it is quite sharp wide open—not quite in the league of the best modern lenses such as the 50 APO or 50 lux ASPH, but quite good.

 

[otto.f]

5 hours ago, onasj said:

but might not be that noticeable on film, instead just being attributed to the lens not being the sharpest.  

Nope, this is not the right story. The Elmar-M 50 is a terrific sharp lens, but there must have been a batch somewhere which was not produced or end-controlled as it should have been.

[Drmat]

@onasj I would never trust myself to do that to a lens... and I am a trained scientist!  I sent the lens back, but I am on the lookout for another.  I guess I will need to wait until one shows up within a drive of my home so as to make sure it focuses correctly on the M10M... small errors are very noticeable on that camera.  Good thing is the 50lux is working perfectly fine.

[Herr Barnack]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:51 PM, Drmat said:

Curious if anyone has experience with the later model Elmer 50 on the M10M.  For context I will share that I already have a 50 lux.  The size intrigues me.  If you have used one I would love to hear the thoughts.

With regard to size, I would say about 5'10" and around 165 pounds.

 

Oh, wait - that's my cousin Elmer. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Herr Barnack

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[Jeff S]

On 6/6/2020 at 10:58 PM, Drmat said:

@onasj I would never trust myself to do that to a lens... and I am a trained scientist!  I sent the lens back, but I am on the lookout for another.  I guess I will need to wait until one shows up within a drive of my home so as to make sure it focuses correctly on the M10M... small errors are very noticeable on that camera.  Good thing is the 50lux is working perfectly fine.

You could have asked DAG (Don Goldberg) or Sherry Krauter for an estimate to repair (or had the shop do it for you).  Both trusted Leica repair techs.  I once had a dealer send a used lens directly to DAG for inspection before sending to me.

Jeff