Noctilux 50/1.0 at center

[Schittra]

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I tried out Noctilux 50/1.0 v4 wide open this morning. At the sunlight with SL using live view. It’s not so sharp. The overall image is what I expected. But it’s not slightly blue even in live view. Is this normal?

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[Schittra]

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[Schittra]

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[chasdfg]

It's hard to tell based on web-sized pictures but I know for a fact the f1 doesn't shine at minimum focusing distance/closer distances in terms of sharpness and you'll see a lot of this "Mandler glow" (though the glow is present throughout the focus range especially at wide apertures). How sharp is your lens around 2m-5m and at infinity? I generally check lens sharpness at MFD, 3m, infinity at the f stops I usually shoot at (wide open, f4/5.6, maybe f8), as some lenses don't perform so well closer. The mid distance and infinity are to confirm sharpness further out. Maybe others have a better way of testing sharpness.

Edited May 16, 2020 by chasdfg

[adan]

I assume by "blue" you mean the focus-peaking "shimmer" overlaid in the viewfinder.

I suspect the Noctilux at f/1.0 (a 1976 design, after all) simply lacks enough edge contrast to be detected and displayed by the SL contrast-detect system, which is likely "tuned" for much newer, contrastier APO-ASPH lenses (SL-native, or post-1990 M lenses).

And yes, as a design long-predating floating elements in 50mm lenses, it will produce even softer and harder-to-detect sharpness in the close range. (As does the pre-ASPH Summilux). There is a reason Leica limited the regular focusing range to 1 meter with those lenses - their edge contrast gets embarassing low in close-ups, with all that "glow." . And why Makro lenses exist (optimized for close-up performance).

The 1970s Nocti at f/1 and close-up simply never produces an image crisp enough to count as "in focus" - in the opinion of the SL's programming. Again, there is a reason the Nocti f/1.0 is half the price of the f/0.95 (only 0.05 stops faster, but which has floating elements and ASPH elements - and is still limited to 1m).

[Schittra]

32 minutes ago, chasdfg said:

It's hard to tell based on web-sized pictures but I know for a fact the f1 doesn't shine at minimum focusing distance/closer distances in terms of sharpness and you'll see a lot of this "Mandler glow" (though the glow is present throughout the focus range especially at wide apertures). How sharp is your lens around 2m-5m and at infinity? I generally check lens sharpness at MFD, 3m, infinity at the f stops I usually shoot at (wide open, f4/5.6, maybe f8), as some lenses don't perform so well closer. The mid distance and infinity are to confirm sharpness further out. Maybe others have a better way of testing sharpness.

Thanks! What do you mean by some lenses? Do you mean some Noctilux?

I will try at 2 meters then. Thanks again

[Schittra]

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5 minutes ago, adan said:

I assume by "blue" you mean the focus-peaking "shimmer" overlaid in the viewfinder.

I suspect the Noctilux at f/1.0 (a 1976 design, after all) simply lacks enough edge contrast to be detected and displayed by the SL contrast-detect system, which is likely "tuned" for much newer, contrastier APO-ASPH lenses (SL-native, or post-1990 M lenses).

And yes, as a design long-predating floating elements in 50mm lenses, it will produce even softer and harder-to-detect sharpness in the close range. (As does the pre-ASPH Summilux). There is a reason Leica limited the regular focusing range to 1 meter with those lenses - their edge contrast gets embarassing low in close-ups, with all that "glow." . And why Makro lenses exist (optimized for close-up performance).

The 1970s Nocti at f/1 and close-up simply never produces an image crisp enough to count as "in focus" - in the opinion of the SL's programming. Again, there is a reason the Nocti f/1.0 is half the price of the f/0.95 (only 0.05 stops faster, but which has floating elements and ASPH elements - and is still limited to 1m).

Thanks a lot. That’s well explanation. I tried again at 1.5 m, focus the eye and not using capture assistance. Overall look good but not producing crisp image. 

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[chasdfg]

8 minutes ago, Schittra said:

Thanks! What do you mean by some lenses? Do you mean some Noctilux?

I will try at 2 meters then. Thanks again

I meant a number of lenses across the Leica lineup (actually all lenses across all manufacturers). I don't have an exhaustive list, but as @adan commented, you can take Minimum Focusing Distance (MFD) and the implementation of floating lens elements as an indicator that a Leica M lens is more adept at shooting closer - though this doesn't mean it is optimised for doing so (borrowing Andy's terminology, which is the accurate term to use).

I would say that all lenses have sweet spots over the focus range. With more modern glass the difference between the sweet spot and the "lows" is likely less abrupt. I believe SL glass work well across the entire range. The sharpness at MFD is incredible.

As for the Noctilux f1, I've never had a Noctilux f1 image shot wide open produce the crispness of my 50APO or 50 Summilux Asph (keep in mind it is f1 vs f1.4 and f2 respectively). A little contrast boost in post-production does seem to help a bit in terms of punch (correct me if I'm wrong, but do note that this won't touch on contrast at the focus point but just global contrast across the whole image). There's always a chance the Noctilux f1 you have is less sharp than the others in the store, but taking that you had tested the others, this may simply boil down to old glass vs modern glass look and the Noctilux f1 just doesn't do the "crisp image wide open" look you are keeping an eye out for. It really depends on what you are comparing the f1 against.

 

[setuporg]

I got mine 1.0 Noct today and here's a shot with M10M, seems pretty crisp.  Josh Lehrer said he focuses with the Visoflex but I did this with the RF.  There seems to be a small focus shift between RF and LV to keep in mind, and my focusing is just a bit tight near infinity, otherwise a perfect classic!  Looks much much worse compressed on LUF than in Lightroom...

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Edited May 16, 2020 by setuporg

[LeicaR10]

Schittra,  I owned the 50 Noctilux f/1.0 and it renders somewhat softly in a very beautiful way when shot wide open.  I recommend you read this article with photographs taken with various 50mm Noctilux lenses.  You can click on the photographs as well.  

Try    https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2018/8/6/leica-50mm-noctilux-summilux-summicron-all-versions-plus-summarit-f15   Or just copy the link into your browser.

This should give you a really good idea what to expect with the various 50 Noctilux lenses.  r/ Mark

Edited May 16, 2020 by LeicaR10

[jankap]

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With FastRawViewer one can indicate the "fine details" in a picture. 

[J.Nordvik]

I only got a Voigtländer Nokton 1.1. But it looks likes it is sharp enough in center.It is surprisingly easy to focus, but it is too big and heavy to use with a neck strap.

It have been snowing for a week here in Norway now. I hate snow.

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[J.Nordvik]

A crop:

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[John Black]

I've had several Noc V4's over the years and they are not what I consider "sharp" at F1.  It can have a nice ambiance or feel to the shot, but trying to find the plane of focus can be elusive.  Instead it's kind of a zone where things are sharp'ish, but nothing is critically sharp.  At F1.2 there tends to be a plane of focus where there is a sense of critical sharpness.  That's been my experience with the V4's.

[pgk]

3 minutes ago, John Black said:

I've had several Noc V4's over the years and they are not what I consider "sharp" at F1.

It is an 'old', ultrafast design. I had one years ago but was never satisfied with its performance wide open, and there seemed little point in owning such a lens to use it stopped down (where slower lenses outperform it too) so it went. I've never regretted selling it. I now use the 50/1/4 asph which is quite simply in a different league. I still have a 35/1.4 pre-aspheric. Performance at infinity wide-open is acceptable, but I keep it for all sorts of reasons (small, iconic, history) but none of which are for its outright performance.

[a.noctilux]

Schittra,

Looking for crisp images at f/1.0 in Noctilux 1.0 is looking for deception.

Do remember that this lens was created in film days and this f/1.0 was kind of overdrive for slow film : I used happily on Kodachrome 25.

Using it at close distance and with SL , I think that we don't use it as intended by Dr. Mandler and his team.

 

My advice is just use it the way you have pictures in your mind, forget about sharpness/crispness and if possible with RF use and medium distance.

This is not the king of "crispness/sharpness", but in real images there are much more than sharpness.

What I love in this unique lens is the OOF area which (in my thinking) enhances the main subject.

This Noctilux 1.0 is "ambiance lens", in many ways like Thambar philosophy but not as highly specialized in fussyness.

 

A while back, on film what I've done with Summilux 35mm, then Noctilux 1.0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by a.noctilux

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

It is an 'old', ultrafast design. I had one years ago but was never satisfied with its performance wide open, and there seemed little point in owning such a lens to use it stopped down (where slower lenses outperform it too) so it went. I've never regretted selling it....

Exactly my experience, too. I never regretted selling my v4 either.  There are cheaper lenses that are measurably better performers and, in my experience, ergonomically far superior.

The person who bought mine via this forum complained to me that it was 'soft'.  :D

[a.noctilux]

Don't get wrong appreciation with the Noctilux 1.0 .

There are so many better lenses out there, ( I do own some 😉 ) and much cheaper, so many times lighter, smaller.

 

If some users love the 1.0 rendering, some other users (or ex users I understand this "ex" very well) move to "better lens" which matches their use better.

Some users do see magic in this lens , ... while other don't.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

For some reasons, when money is not a problem 😇, many Leica users own Apo-Summicron asph. 50 AND Summilux-M asph. AND Noctilux 0.95   AND 1.0 , etc.

Edited May 16, 2020 by a.noctilux

[newnew]

I do not have a Noctilux but I have experienced that the full aperture sharpness can be improved by pushing the Structure slider in Capture 1 to pretty high levels for the Summarit 1.5 which has a lot of glow full open and also somewhat for the Summilux 50 non asph version 2. Maybe these older lenses are worth more in digital post processing.

Edited May 16, 2020 by newnew

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[Schittra]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Don't get wrong appreciation with the Noctilux 1.0 .

There are so many better lenses out there, ( I do own some 😉 ) and much cheaper, so many times lighter, smaller.

 

If some users love the 1.0 rendering, some other users (or ex users I understand this "ex" very well) move to "better lens" which matches their use better.

Some users do see magic in this lens , ... while other don't.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

For some reasons, when money is not a problem 😇, many Leica users own Apo-Summicron asph. 50 AND Summilux-M asph. AND Noctilux 0.95   AND 1.0 , etc.

Thanks! I played around for myself portrait, using tripod and FOTOs. Both photos are wide open at f/1.0. The first one looks quite good. Actually, I remembered the reason why I bought this lens because it's not too crisp. I was hoping it will be sharper. I tried with f/2.0 and have similar crisp as 50/1.4 ASPH. But the background and dimensions are different. Noctilux 50/1.0 gives me more film-like photo. Somehow I get used to super-crisp of digital world too much.

The second photo is interesting. At the Leica logo, it has hallow. This is similar to the leaves I posted at the beginning. Is this chromatic aberration?

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