S3 does not support UHS-II

[setuporg]

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I've listened to Ray Olson's S3 webinar from Camera West, and what struck me is that the SD card slot is not even UHS-II.  Hasselblad X1Dii upgraded its own to that, and Leica didn't.  It still has exactly the same hardware, including the CompactFlash slot that nobody uses anymore.  For some reason, that was particularly upsetting to me.  They did not bother to update almost anything but the sensor.  I wonder if it's actually just the sensor.  That makes this upgrade the most underwhelming and unnecessary ever.

[Chaemono]

A mistake IMO, too.  Burst mode with 12fps would have been nice as well.

[John McMaster]

Other than size, the S3 can take over from my M system.  The improved high ISO (better than the S(007)), which is several stops better than my M(240), makes up for the lens speed compared to Summilux lenses on the M...

john

[helged]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Burst mode with 12fps would have been nice as well.

Agree (with the mirror locked in up position, I presume ...).

[John Smith]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've listened to Ray Olson's S3 webinar from Camera West, and what struck me is that the SD card slot is not even UHS-II.  Hasselblad X1Dii upgraded its own to that, and Leica didn't.  It still has exactly the same hardware, including the CompactFlash slot that nobody uses anymore.  For some reason, that was particularly upsetting to me.  They did not bother to update almost anything but the sensor.  I wonder if it's actually just the sensor.  That makes this upgrade the most underwhelming and unnecessary ever.

Is the webinar online anywhere?

[Milan_S]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've listened to Ray Olson's S3 webinar from Camera West, and what struck me is that the SD card slot is not even UHS-II.  Hasselblad X1Dii upgraded its own to that, and Leica didn't.  It still has exactly the same hardware, including the CompactFlash slot that nobody uses anymore.  For some reason, that was particularly upsetting to me.  They did not bother to update almost anything but the sensor.  I wonder if it's actually just the sensor.  That makes this upgrade the most underwhelming and unnecessary ever.

Can you please provide a link to the recorded webinar? 

[BernardC]

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The title is misleading. The S3 supports UHS-II cards. Is there a brand-name UHS-II card that doesn't work in the S3?

It doesn't implement the full UHS-II feature set, but it doesn't need to. It's still the fastest-shooting medium format stills camera on the market.

My guess is that Leica evaluated the cost/benefit of replacing the card interface, saw that the benefit was near zero, and decided to do something worthwhile instead. Frankly, the only downside is that on-board video isn't as good as it could be. They lost sales to people who would have bought the S3 to record their kid's school play in 10-bit 4:2:2.

[setuporg]

@BernardC, I think most folks get that UHS-II is not supported natively is what I meant.  In terms of video, it's touted as a major improvement.  Obviously it would have benefited from a faster write speed.  The SL2 is positioned for professional videographers and the S3 could do that too with its awesome optics, in fact the S lenses are great for cinema.  I agree that the speed should be enough, I never shoot reportage style with it an S, or X1D with which you just can't.  But an overall approach is not auguring well, unless it's all saved for S4.

I've watched the seminar live, am not sure whether it was recorded...  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/intro-to-the-leica-s3-with-ray-olson-tickets-101690312462.

I asked whether the AF was improved and Ray said it focuses faster.

[davidmknoble]

13 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've listened to Ray Olson's S3 webinar from Camera West, and what struck me is that the SD card slot is not even UHS-II.  

The technical sheet from Leica on the S3 says to use UHS-II for 4k video.  Looks to me like the slot does take UHS-II.  (under Image Data - Storage). 

Ok, I also see the other posts.  Remember that the physical SLR (mirror) is slower than a mirrorless or rangefinder shutter and cannot take images at 10 frames a second, so faster write speeds are only an issue for video.  If the UHS-II interface is sufficient for video, then what is the problem with the way Leica designed the S3?

Edited April 25, 2020 by davidmknoble

[davidmknoble]

Agree @setuporg it might be nice to adjust the title...

[setuporg]

@davidmknoble I'd be thrilled to know that UHS-II is supported natively, contrary to what Ray has said!  @Chaemono, could you possibly peer into the SD card slot and see if the two sets of contacts are there?:)

[Stuart Richardson]

 

17 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've listened to Ray Olson's S3 webinar from Camera West, and what struck me is that the SD card slot is not even UHS-II.  Hasselblad X1Dii upgraded its own to that, and Leica didn't.  It still has exactly the same hardware, including the CompactFlash slot that nobody uses anymore.  For some reason, that was particularly upsetting to me.  They did not bother to update almost anything but the sensor.  I wonder if it's actually just the sensor.  That makes this upgrade the most underwhelming and unnecessary ever.

From where I am sitting, we are lucky there is an S3 at all. Luckier still that it has nearly double the pixels, better high ISO and better color. Granted, I did not get the 007, so the jump will seem bigger to me than to people with the 007, and I agree that it would be nice if they completely updated the camera to modern spec (like an HDMI output fast enough to record 4k to an external recorder). That said, in chatting with people in a position to know, apparently the team behind the S3 is very small at this point, and Leica cannot really justify putting more people on the camera. They clearly figured that long term users of the system would rather have an S007 with an updated sensor than no new camera at all.

[setuporg]

You're right, Stuart, of course.  It's impressive how long you were using the S system and it's great indeed we're still going to enjoy it for a while.

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

  @Chaemono, could you possibly peer into the SD card slot and see if the two sets of contacts are there?:)

It's impossible to tell.

[davidmknoble]

So, interesting. I read the S3 manual and it clearly says UHS-I is recommended and 4K video only records on SD (UHS-I).  The SL2 recommends UHS-II SD cards.  This makes perfect sense.  The SL2 is geared towards fast shooting and the S3 is geared towards studio and slower work. I haven’t ever run up against buffer issues on the S007 and I run both cards simultaneously in backup mode.  
 
Is the S3 native for UHS-II?  Not sure that it is.  Do I need that?  I do t think so even for increased pixel counts.

[HuntingSand]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Stuart Richardson:

 

From where I am sitting, we are lucky there is an S3 at all. Luckier still that it has nearly double the pixels, better high ISO and better color.

Look out for the same imaging characteristics in the next M. From what I've heard the S3 sensor is the forerunner for what's coming to M land next. Very expensive piece of silicon, too.

[tom0511]

I wonder how many plan to use the S3 as a movie camera and how much the op mentioned webinar mentioned "information" has much relevance for practical use.

I am more concerned about price

[xiaubauu2009]

On 4/25/2020 at 8:43 PM, BernardC said:

The title is misleading. The S3 supports UHS-II cards. Is there a brand-name UHS-II card that doesn't work in the S3?

It doesn't implement the full UHS-II feature set, but it doesn't need to. It's still the fastest-shooting medium format stills camera on the market.

My guess is that Leica evaluated the cost/benefit of replacing the card interface, saw that the benefit was near zero, and decided to do something worthwhile instead. Frankly, the only downside is that on-board video isn't as good as it could be. They lost sales to people who would have bought the S3 to record their kid's school play in 10-bit 4:2:2.

I think that qualify as not supporting UHS-II... ie, you won't get the benefit of UHS-II, if you don't say that, people will be spending lots of money buying UHS-II card to insert into the thing and only find out that it's totally unnecessary as it doesn't support... so don't think it's misleading in the title, no?

 

16 hours ago, HuntingSand said:

Look out for the same imaging characteristics in the next M. From what I've heard the S3 sensor is the forerunner for what's coming to M land next. Very expensive piece of silicon, too.

thought the next M will be the SL2 sensor? Which is different from the S3? as the pixel pitch is different? or is it the same?

[Chaemono]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb xiaubauu2009:

thought the next M will be the SL2 sensor? Which is different from the S3? as the pixel pitch is different? or is it the same?

M10M has the same pixel pitch as S3 and I’m willing to bet that the next M will have that sensor, with a color filter. 

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[helged]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

M10M has the same pixel pitch as S3 and I’m willing to bet that the next M will have that sensor, with a color filter. 

As a follow-up: There has also been talking about a monochrome version of the S3...