cl: no luck with sooc jpgs so far

[gteague]

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2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Forum resolution is 2480 pixels.

ah! i have a script for 2400, so i'll use that next time i post images.

[jaapv]

use 2480, that avoids forum resizing. 1000 kB.

[gteague]

i haven't edited an applescript in a long time, but i'll see if i can modify it to 2480 exactly. thanks!

ah, that was easy one trip into automator and change to 2480 and save. tested and done.

Edited March 12, 2020 by gteague

[jaapv]

Testing is no use, really, it results in blaming the tools too often. Have a look at the CL image thread. Plenty of examples how CL shots can - and should- look The secret is in the processing. In general, Leicas are not meant to be OOC JPG cameras. Some users do get quite decent results, but processed raw captures can be so much better.

[bags27]

If you look at Louis's photos, they are, I believe, SOOC jpegs and they are pretty spectacular. His are certainly not the only examples, to be sure, but he posts a great deal with very different lenses, including some old Nikons. They're unfailingly sharp and saturated. 

[wda]

1 hour ago, gteague said:

i use the single box mode nearly all the time. i put the box over my focus point, half press, then reframe if needed. i have the touch af turned off because when using the evf with my left eye, my nose is planted in the middle of the lcd.

I know it is one more step, but have you tried locking AF (HALF-PRESSURE ON RELEASE BUTTON) and adjusting focus manually with focus peaking selected? If not, try it now. I find that very reassuring if there is any possibility of the focus point failing to hit the target precisely.  Please try it and report back.

[gteague]

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4 minutes ago, wda said:

I know it is one more step, but have you tried locking AF (HALF-PRESSURE ON RELEASE BUTTON) and adjusting focus manually with focus peaking selected? If not, try it now. I find that very reassuring if there is any possibility of the focus point failing to hit the target precisely.  Please try it and report back.

on my gh5 and s1, i use focus peaking pretty regularly,  but those cameras don't make me half-press and hold the shutter button--an operation i find very difficult. but i often, when i'm concerned about the focus plane, shift to peaking to confirm it.

i put the cl on scene mode full auto and went out to shoot the same things i'd been shooting on my iphone. used /std/ style with no tweaks. these shots aren't razor sharp, but hopefully if i tweak the style they'll improve. perhaps i'm my own worst enemy trying to out think the camera.

i've tweaked the /viv/ and /b&w hc/ modes to maximum levels and i'll got out again with field focus, confirm the focus plane is where i think it is using peaking, and shoot again to see how much i can improve on things with style tweaks.

[i've hit the limit on uploading again. i downsized to 2480 and the forum is telling me the image is too big. the tool at bottom says max total size is 1.17mb and my 2480 image is 1.3mb which is why i was downsizing so much. resized to 1920]

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[Boojay]

2 hours ago, gteague said:

i use the single box mode nearly all the time. i put the box over my focus point, half press, then reframe if needed. i have the touch af turned off because when using the evf with my left eye, my nose is planted in the middle of the lcd.

Try with spot focus, if you are using the box mode (field) that may be your issue, or at least not helping matters.

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Boojay

[gteague]

4 minutes ago, Boojay said:

I only ever use spot focus, if you are using the box mode (field) that may be your issue, or at least not helping matters.

 

 

i would use spot focus, but the indicators are too dim and lack contrast. out in the daylight it's nearly impossible to see if the boxes light up green or not. even the single field box is not bold enough and i struggle to see it even though i know where to look. inside it's much less of an issue. the cl badly needs a green light in the viewfinder to indicate focus confirmation. and the 'audio' or audible alerts are a joke--i can't hear them with my ear pressed against the speaker--a good beep indicating focus would help tremendously.  

i know i sound negative and picky, but other cameras have spoiled me and i expect more from different brands.

Edited March 12, 2020 by gteague

[Boojay]

2 minutes ago, gteague said:

i would use spot focus, but the indicators are too dim and lack contrast. out in the daylight it's nearly impossible to see if the boxes light up green or not. even the single field box is not bold enough and i struggle to see it even though i know where to look. the cl badly needs a green light in the viewfinder to indicate focus confirmation. at least i badly miss having one. /guy

The spot/cross or box does turn green when focus is achieved - are you struggling with the evf or the lcd?  Possibly just a matter of getting more used to your CL, shoot shoot and shoot more, good luck!

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Boojay

[gteague]

1 minute ago, Boojay said:

The spot/cross or box does turn green when focus is achieved - are you struggling with the evf or the lcd?  Possibly just a matter of getting more used to your CL, shoot shoot and shoot more, good luck!

 

inside is fine in both. outside the lcd indicators are much too dim and no, i can barely tell when the box turns green. the evf doesn't have enough eye relief and i can only see about 60% of the image and i only resort to it when outdoors in strong light where the lcd is pretty useless.

but i did turn the brightness down a notch on the lcd to save battery power. it's possible just that one notch towards dim has caused some of these indicator problems. i'll turn the brightness up and check things again. 

[gteague]

2 minutes ago, gteague said:

inside is fine in both. outside the lcd indicators are much too dim and no, i can barely tell when the box turns green. the evf doesn't have enough eye relief and i can only see about 60% of the image and i only resort to it when outdoors in strong light where the lcd is pretty useless.

but i did turn the brightness down a notch on the lcd to save battery power. it's possible just that one notch towards dim has caused some of these indicator problems. i'll turn the brightness up and check things again. 

i was wrong. i had the lcd on /automatic/. perhaps i'll need to put it on high when outside--i have other cameras which require this as well. 

[lykaman]

2 minutes ago, Boojay said:

The spot/cross or box does turn green when focus is achieved - are you struggling with the evf or the lcd?  Possibly just a matter of getting more used to your CL, shoot shoot and shoot more, good luck!

 

Hi, it could be that Guy" as with myself,  our eyesight is such that with some camera viewfinders we just cannot see enough. I myself use the small single box focus point, both practice and chimping help to obtain a well balanced image..  The Focus Confirmation Sound is also a useful tool.. Maybe a VF + or - screw-in lens might help.. I avoid the P or Scene settings whenever possible..   L

[wda]

23 minutes ago, gteague said:

on my gh5 and s1, i use focus peaking pretty regularly,  but those cameras don't make me half-press and hold the shutter button--an operation i find very difficult. but i often, when i'm concerned about the focus plane, shift to peaking to confirm it......

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OK. Sorry to read that. So can you focus manually, leaving your trigger finger free to shoot? That is so easy on the CL

[gteague]

i'm still unable to upload images at the 2480 recommended size because they're about 0.2mb too large. this one is 1920.

first, i tweaked the /vivid/ style to use the max settings for each of the 3 categories. for the first shot i used the single field box and focused at the top line of the small sign in the foreground. f3.5 1/250. then i switched to spot focus mode and used the same top line, same fs/ss. next i set aperture to f5 which should be about the sweet spot for quality and spot focused in the same place. all 3 shots are nearly-but-not-quite as sharp as i prefer, but the 3rd shot where i stopped down looks microscopically better than the other two, but that might be only because i think it should. the shots only really differ in sharpness and not by enough to matter much.

what this does tell me is that the tweaks to the styles have very little effect and that the /vivid/ on the cl, even tweaked to max, is about the same as /standard/ or /natural/ on my other cameras. the cl might well not be capable of producing acceptable sooc jpgs like my other cameras, at least with this lens. but i have two other lenses to test before i reach any such conclusions, one with ois. also, the green indicators for focus are much easier to see in the evf vs the lcd and using the evf puts me close enough to (barely) hear the audible indicator. leaves a greasy nose spot in the middle of the lcd though.

 

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[lykaman]

In all honesty, 90% of images out of camera do need some PP.. It also depends on what you want out of the image..  I go between Vivid & Standard with + 1click on all the other little tweaks..  I took the liberty of importing your images into Photos and doing little PP..  would also say, using the B&W settings sometime help with colorless & bland images..  L

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Edited March 12, 2020 by lykaman

[gteague]

really improved the sharpness, for sure. that small sign is as good or better than from my s1 with one of the leica certified s pro lenses. and these are what i consider vivid, bordering perhaps on hdr. and these two images are very close to how images from my gh5 and s1 come out of the camera, thus i've been spoiled by not having to post-process.

and yeah, i used vivid for testing because it's easier to see results of the tweaks than it would be in mono.

i think what i'll do for the cl is to shoot some representative or average images using jpg+raw, bring them dxo and see what needs to be done to the raws to bring them up to the level of the jpgs, then see if i can improve on what the camera outputs. once i do that, i'll save those settings and batch apply them whenever i load the cl raw images. then i can further tweak the shots that need more attention.

/guy

[gteague]

granted, this shot from my s1 is in more contrasty lighting, but this is a sooc jpg from the s1 using the barely tweaked /standard/ style or profile and the 16-35/4 lens. 16mm f6.3 1/320. i think anyone would agree that this one hardly needs any post-processing, at least not for sharpness. this is what i'd like out the cl, but i'm not yet seeing it even with examples of post processing. i've tried to duplicate this shot on the cl in similar lighting, but no luck so far. but i allow that perhaps i caught the angle of the light just exactly right for maximum effectiveness for contrast and sharpness. also, much more depth of field at 16mm vs 35mm and the fstop is the absolute sweet spot of the lens by convention. thus it might have been the perfect conditions and would be hard to duplicate.

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Edited March 12, 2020 by gteague

[lykaman]

2 minutes ago, gteague said:

really improved the sharpness, for sure. that small sign is as good or better than from my s1 with one of the leica certified s pro lenses. and these are what i consider vivid, bordering perhaps on hdr. and these two images are very close to how images from my gh5 and s1 come out of the camera, thus i've been spoiled by not having to post-process.

and yeah, i used vivid for testing because it's easier to see results of the tweaks than it would be in mono.

i think what i'll do for the cl is to shoot some representative or average images using jpg+raw, bring them dxo and see what needs to be done to the raws to bring them up to the level of the jpgs, then see if i can improve on what the camera outputs. once i do that, i'll save those settings and batch apply them whenever i load the cl raw images. then i can further tweak the shots that need more attention.

/guy

You could always try EV Compensation (3 images ) and choose from there..  Overall I would maybe use a F5.6 or F8 and take different images metered from different areas of the image.. L 

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[gteague]

Just now, lykaman said:

You could always try EV Compensation (3 images ) and choose from there..  Overall I would maybe use a F5.6 or F8 and take different images metered from different areas of the image.. L 

i just realized i haven't tried the hdr mode. unusual to have it in the scenes mode and about the only thing i'd use in there is panorama, so i forget about it. for bracketing, i usually just do it manually +/- 2/3rd stops using exp comp.