Leica Camera delivers Leica S3

[John Smith]

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3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Given cost, I assume the users that would upgrade quickly would be:

* professionals that want / need a) more megapixels, b) higher ISO

* those with older S bodies - SE, S006 with 12 stops of dynamic range and CCD

* anyone else that wants / needs a) more megapixels, b) higher ISO

Those seem to be really the two main changes, but I'll wait to read / see more as users of the S3 share results.

One beta tester indicated that the colors, especially skin tones, are better, closer to the 006’s CCD sensor. Another quirky Leica camera—2020 sensor wrapped in 2010 technology. 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[SaW]

I never regretted having upgraded from S2 to S007.  Live view when using tripod is a game changer as is the better DR. Better high iso opens up the flexibility too (handholding the mighty S120mm in shallow light without motion blur was a challenge with the S2).

But upgrading again to the S3 really is questionable. I don't need better high iso, there is many better options out there for low light shooting. Having more pixels would be welcomed but printing at 42" wide is not a problem with the S007 and wanting to print larger does not happens often for me (almost never in fact).

The S3 is just a sensor + processor upgrade from the S007. Same AF single point, not even an LCD upgrade (that still is under 1.000.000 dots).

IQ/Color should have something exceptional to make me consider upgrading.

 

About the trade-in program I advise any potential buyer to challenge it. Last year I received a price offer for the S3 with trade-up of my S007 = 10.000eur vat inc.

Same when the S007 was launched, Leica wanted at least 10.000eur when trading-up with an older S body.

I believe anyone having an S007 will be able to push its dealer to negotiate this price with its Leica Pro area rep for him (of course a good, long term relation with a Leica dealer helps).

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by SaW

[Jan1985]

A good friend has seen the first big prints in A2-Format. He is also very experienced in printing S007 files. He mentioned that there really is an improvement from the S007 to the new S3. And as we all know the real qualities you see in prints and not just on your calibrated display.

[darkness30]

Kinda same here. 2Sls + 1R9 several lenses. Doorstops.

[setuporg]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:34 AM, SaW said:

About the trade-in program I advise any potential buyer to challenge it. Last year I received a price offer for the S3 with trade-up of my S007 = 10.000eur vat inc.

Same when the S007 was launched, Leica wanted at least 10.000eur when trading-up with an older S body.

I believe anyone having an S007 will be able to push its dealer to negotiate this price with its Leica Pro area rep for him (of course a good, long term relation with a Leica dealer helps).

Now this is what the pricing thread I started should have become, not the 14 bit vs 16 bit debate it devolved into.  Thanks for the great advice!

[Joe]

Henry,

Good to hear from you and thanks for the link, I did see this review, thought it was well written. Please send any others you come across. Good to know tonality and colors are of good quality. The review was for the S3 but just as easily could have been an 007 review, other than resolution nothing new for the S3. https://djessemay.com/news-articles/103-leica-s3-photographer-s-best-friend.html

Not easy to evaluate the 007 and S3 IQ differences with no DNGs available as yet. I expect it will be fine. I wonder if no DNGs online is a new policy for Leica.

The new purchase price seems high to me for the value received versus the 007. With the current price of the S3 makes me question if new customers will buy into the S system? A person can buy a used 007 (eBay at $8K), purchase used (mint or like new condition) lenses at half the price, then buy a S3 camera two or three years out. I don’t begrudge anyone from doing this, it is a smart purchase of a great great camera and lenses. The reason the lenses have lost so much value is not because of any new S lens technology (same for the camera), is because Leica has not supported the S camera. The S3 camera at $19k with only a resolution bump over the 007, is another indication of Leica's lack of interest in the S system. 

Maybe prices will go up if the used supply dries up. Leica Miami has no new S lenses in stock (wonder why?), they have some used S lenses at about half the price of new.

Will new money (customers) come to Leica for the S3 with the current value proposition of the used 007 and lenses? I don’t know, not likely. I will wait to see if Leica offers a fair 007 upgrade trade in option. Will you wait, buy or skip on the S3?

With no explanation for the considerable delay of the S3 launch, very few field reviews and no DNG's available, I'm starting to feel like we don't have the full story on the S3.

Best,

Joe

[Sarnian]

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I'm hoping that lots of current 007 owners will trade in their 007 and buy an S3 as I'm banking on buying a refurbished 007!! Due to the meagre trade in proposition, though, I fear that most will keep their 007's as a back-up. Shame. 

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, Sarnian said:

I'm hoping that lots of current 007 owners will trade in their 007 and buy an S3 as I'm banking on buying a refurbished 007!! Due to the meagre trade in proposition, though, I fear that most will keep their 007's as a back-up. Shame. 

Yes, given the likely end -of-lifing of the S system after S3, keeping the 007 to ensure the lenses are useable would be a very reasonable approach.

[davidmknoble]

13 hours ago, setuporg said:

Yes, given the likely end -of-lifing of the S system after S3, keeping the 007 to ensure the lenses are useable would be a very reasonable approach.

Thats a very strong statement to make.

[setuporg]

2 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Thats a very strong statement to make.

Hope for the best, be ready for the worst...  I surely do hope S4 will be even better.:)

[Sandokan]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:25 PM, LUF Admin said:

...

In comparison with its predecessor, the new 64 megapixel sensor developed exclusively for Leica offers a 71 percent increase in resolution,

... 

I am sorry - maybe it is just me. 

When the sensor goes from 5000 x 7500 pixels = 37,500,000 (37.5MPixels) 

to

6530 x 9796 = 63.961 MPixels (almost 64 MP)

How is that an increase in resolution of 71%? It is an increase in total number of pixels of 71% but ... I thought resolution was measured in lines per mm and not pixels per square mm? 

I calculate an increase of resolution of 31% ... but please correct my misunderstanding. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Sandokan

[eev776]

It's a great camera and it's for professional photographers only who sucessfully makes living from photography.

I can't afford it and I don't need it, I don't understand why people complain about the price of $18,995.00.

Professionals who make 150-250k a year can easily afford this camera, film studios and advertising agencies can easily find a budget for this camera, if you not making triple digits there is no reason to look at this camera and complain.

[mgrayson3]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:43 AM, Sandokan said:

I am sorry - maybe it is just me. 

When the sensor goes from 5000 x 7500 pixels = 37,500,000 (37.5MPixels) 

to

6530 x 9796 = 63.961 MPixels (almost 64 MP)

How is that an increase in resolution of 71%? It is an increase in total number of pixels of 71% but ... I thought resolution was measured in lines per mm and not pixels per square mm? 

I calculate an increase of resolution of 31% ... but please correct my misunderstanding. 

Alas, "resolution" now has two meanings in the world of optics. Before digital sensors, it meant linear resolution - how close can two points be and still be resolved. Once the marketers got their hands on the word, it became "number of pixels", or, more literally, "number of pixels in the exported image, as we're just making up numbers from the output of Bayer demosaicing or Foveon processing." A monochrome sensor is the least dishonest about the number but, the linear resolution still gets squared to give the megapixel resolution.

But yes, you can print 31% larger at the same detail resolution. In my printing tests, the print had to get more than four feet wide before the difference was visible at 2" viewing distance.

Still might get one if the AF or color are notably better.

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, mgrayson3 said:

A monochrome sensor is the least dishonest about the number but, the linear resolution still gets squared to give the megapixel resolution.

 

That is until reviewers comment on the increased ‘effective’ resolution of the monochrome version compared to the same sensor with a color array. I’ve seen usually reputable sources vary in their estimates from 50-100% increase.

Jeff

[paulsydaus]

Curious, did Leica ever clarify what the reason was for the significant delay in releasing this camera?