Chaemono Posted February 24, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I tried to make this one look film-like? Tri-X maybe? It's a crop with some grain added in post. BTW, German women are theee prettiest. Apparently, they developed their strong legs as they worked to clear the cities of rubble in the aftermath of World War II. They pass them on from one generation to the next, it seems. 😂 Less compressed JPEG here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-78dGnt/ M10 Monochrom + APO 50 Summicron Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306783-can-the-m10-monochrom-files-be-made-to-look-film-like/?do=findComment&comment=3919090'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here Can the M10 Monochrom files be made to look film-like?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 24, 2020 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2020 Why should you wish to do so? The Monochrom files are so special by their own look - and the only thing that looks like Tri-X is Tri-X... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted February 24, 2020 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2020 Well, here is Kodak TMax 400 with Summilux 35 v.I. I think the main difference is that film just handles enormous amounts of light wonderfully. Digital Mono M's on the other hand thrive in darkness. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306783-can-the-m10-monochrom-files-be-made-to-look-film-like/?do=findComment&comment=3919133'>More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 24, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, horosu said: I think the main difference is that film just handles enormous amounts of light wonderfully. Digital Mono M's on the other hand thrive in darkness. That's because black and white film is a negative whilst sensors behave like positive film, such as color transparency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 24, 2020 Not my experience - the tonality of the Monochroms in full daylight is brilliantly designed. I never really liked Tri-X. I'm more of an ilford person. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted February 24, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 24, 2020 When I use (d) film, when Fujifilm Neopan 400 was still available, this was my prefered film. I never like the Tri-X, so my second choice was Ilford HP5 Plus. "Better yet" when I needed fast film, the Neopan 1600 is champion, the film grain can't be duplicated with another film or sensor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 24, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 24, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi @Chaemono like you I love film, and do prefer it much more to the digital output. For color I only shoot film actually, but digital I’ve been working with the M10M and trying to make my files look like film. I also prefer the look of Ilford FP4+ or HP5 to Tri-X (although Tri-x is lovely too). This weekend I spent more time shooting the M10M and tried to edit the shoots to look as close to HP5 as I could (shadows pulled up, soft greys without deep blacks, low contrast, etc). Another tip is to also not use the APO because it will give you a really modern / clean output. I only shoot 1950s lenses on my cameras. Anyway, here are the photos I took yesterday, and uploaded to flickr; I’m not sure if I’m there yet, but much happier now than I was two weeks ago when I got the camera and the files were looking overly digital / plasticky to me. This was the closest I could get them to look like film, what do you think? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 25, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, jaapv said: Why should you wish to do so? The Monochrom files are so special by their own look - and the only thing that looks like Tri-X is Tri-X... I agree the files do look unique, but I’m guessing there are people like me / Chaemono who shoot Leica Ms because they enjoy the experience / output of shooting with film. I could definitely almost not do any retouching to the M10M files and I’m sure they’d look great, but when I look at the same photo, one being M10M OOC, the other being edited to taste to look like film, the OOC file always looks 1) much more detailed because there’s no grain, 2) higher contrast, 3) deeper blacks. For some people, depending on what they shoot this may be preferable, but for me, someone who prefers the soft and organic look of film, the M10M files just look made out of plastic if I don’t edit them... Again, just preferences, the great thing of the Leica M10M, more so than any other digital Leica, is that you are pretty much able to work your file to make it look whatever you want; in a way that’s the closest to working with a B&W negative and develop it to taste in the darkroom Edited February 25, 2020 by shirubadanieru Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 25, 2020 I don't shoot a digital camera to get a film image, I use a film camera. So I get out my M6. I still miss my wet darkroom; I hate scanning. A Leica M6 is an M camera as well I'm no slouch at Photoshop, and while I can produce an image that "looks like film" and superior to Silver Efex, the real film image will always look better. Even a Leica Monochrom is second best in that respect, so I will capitalize on its strengths. The digital Monochrome image is far more to my taste. Print on Canson Baryta, nothing can beat them. There is nothing that forbids a Monochrom image to be processed gritty, but is still will be different to Tri-X and superior to a Tri-X simulation. Btw. My preferred Monochrom is still the original CCD one. 2nd BTW: The image from Chameano is excellent and excellently processsed, but it does not really look like film. The tonal range is the giveaway. Look at the faces; no film would render skin in those tones, for instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 25, 2020 Share #10 Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said: ...This weekend I spent more time shooting the M10M and tried to edit the shoots to look as close to HP5 as I could (shadows pulled up, soft greys without deep blacks, low contrast, etc). Another tip is to also not use the APO because it will give you a really modern / clean output. I only shoot 1950s lenses on my cameras. Anyway, here are the photos I took yesterday, and uploaded to flickr; I’m not sure if I’m there yet, but much happier now than I was two weeks ago when I got the camera and the files were looking overly digital / plasticky to me. This was the closest I could get them to look like film, what do you think? Daniel - I think the your flickr images are good; but, for myself, I wonder whether this type of look isn't easier to accomplish using the M10 with access to the color sliders in Lightroom or Silver Efex. I'm not trying to emulate any particular film, but going for a dark, often high-contrast look that I like. Sometime I do that in LR; sometimes an edited version of the Silver Efex Tri-X simulation comes closest to what I want. Am I wrong to think that the M10M isn't going to be better for me than the M10 for the type of images below — and could even make it more difficult than the M10? M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 3200 | f/5.6 | 1/2000 sec Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok – Empire of Signs M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 6000 | f/4.0 | 1/60 | Close-up range with goggles Bangkok – Empire of Signs______________________Frog Leaping photobook Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok – Empire of Signs M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 6000 | f/4.0 | 1/60 | Close-up range with goggles Bangkok – Empire of Signs ______________________ Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306783-can-the-m10-monochrom-files-be-made-to-look-film-like/?do=findComment&comment=3919273'>More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 25, 2020 Share #11 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, jaapv said: I don't shoot a digital camera to get a film image, I use a film camera. So I get out my M6. I'm no slouch at Photoshop, and while I can produce an image that "looks like film", the real film image will always look better... Not always; sometimes, yes; or, perhaps, often. In any case, my nomadic life between three continents makes shooting film, which I love, impossible._________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited February 25, 2020 by Nowhereman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 25, 2020 Yes, but, even if you have a distinctive style in your processing, which conveys the same emotion as well-printed film does, I would never accuse you of simulating a film look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 25, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: Daniel - I think the your flickr images are good; but, for myself, I wonder whether this type of look isn't easier to accomplish using the M10 with access to the color sliders in Lightroom or Silver Efex. I'm not trying to emulate any particular film, but going for a dark, often high-contrast look that I like. Sometime I do that in LR; sometimes an edited version of the Silver Efex Tri-X simulation comes closest to what I want. Am I wrong to think that the M10M isn't going to be better for me than the M10 for the type of images below — and could even make it more difficult than the M10? M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 3200 | f/5.6 | 1/2000 sec Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok – Empire of Signs M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 6000 | f/4.0 | 1/60 | Close-up range with goggles Bangkok – Empire of Signs______________________Frog Leaping photobook Not sure about the M10 being better, you do get to play with the color filters but with the M10M you can play with black / white and change them considerably too...and by the way I always have a yellow filter in my lens, those who prefer a grittier look like yourself might instead use an orange or red filter : ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 25, 2020 Share #14 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jaapv said: I don't shoot a digital camera to get a film image, I use a film camera. So I get out my M6. I still miss my wet darkroom; I hate scanning. A Leica M6 is an M camera as well I'm no slouch at Photoshop, and while I can produce an image that "looks like film" and miles superior to Silver Efex, the real film image will always look better. Even a Leica Monochrom is second best in that respect, so I will capitalize on its strengths. The digital Monochrome image is far more to my taste. Print on Canson Baryta, nothing can beat them. There is nothing that forbids a Monochrom image to be processed gritty, but is still will be different to Tri-X and superior to a Tri-X simulation. Btw. My preferred Monochrom is still the original CCD one. 2nd BTW: The image from Chameano is excellent and excellently processsed, but it does not really look like film. The tonal range is the giveaway. Look at the faces; no film would render skin in those tones, for instance. True if I could shoot only film I would but unfortunately there are a few things preventing me from doing so: 1) I dont have the space in my house to buy all the things required to develop / scan film by myself (plus scanning film takes way too long) 2) I have a great lab I use; I tell him how I want my files to look and he does it for me exactly how I want it. Unfortunately he only does color, not B&W; other labs develop my b&w but I don’t get to specify the look I want, so then that leaves me with two options: 2.1 simply develop the film and then scan it to taste at home, but that would be too time consuming, and 2.2 ask them to develop and give me TIFF files, so that I can then edit on LR, but that would be too expensive. So for all my color work, I still use an M4; I tried to edit digital color files to look pleasing to me, none got even close to what I get from Portra 400 or other film stocks. The Monochrom though, I would say that unless I’m printing them, viewing them in large screens, if I edit them to look like HP5, it gets so close that I am very happy with the results. This was actually the biggest finding for me when I got the M9M, making it my all time favorite digital camera. So basically, the MM, yes although it is digital, it allows me to edit my files to my taste, and get close enough to film that I am very happy with the end result. If I wanted to get similar results shooting with film, it would either cost me a lot of time or money. This is pretty much my reasoning and why I shoot B&W in digital and color on film. And it works for me, other people may have different workflows / ideas and that’s totally fine, do whatever works for you Edited February 25, 2020 by shirubadanieru Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 25, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 25, 2020 7 hours ago, jaapv said: Why should you wish to do so? The Monochrom files are so special by their own look - and the only thing that looks like Tri-X is Tri-X... One could do Salgado's approach: shoot digital for practical reasons and 'convert' the files to Tri-X for aesthetical reasons (Salgado). I am happy with the digital Monochrom look. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 25, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 25, 2020 +1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Abrahams Posted February 25, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2020 I certainly do not want my images looking like film however I do like the style of images produced by street photographers 50 years ago! I am talking about impactful black and white images that engage and "move" the viewer. One doesnt need grain for this purpose however I am sure those photographers 50-100 years ago would have loved the fine grain and details that the M10M sensor produces. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 25, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 25, 2020 In two weeks or so of M10M use (my first Leica Monochrom) I have not tried to emulate film (I have M7 & R5 for the real thing!) but have aimed for strong, mainly high-contrast results. For post-processing I only use LR Classic (apart for adding a frame & drop shadow in PS). What I noticed at the weekend, when having switched from 50mm Summilux-M ASPH to ZM 50mm C-Sonnar is the way the ZM seems to impart a more 'filmic' feel - as illustrated in the thread I raised on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted February 26, 2020 Am 25.2.2020 um 01:56 schrieb jaapv: [...] 2nd BTW: The image from Chameano is excellent and excellently processsed, but it does not really look like film. The tonal range is the giveaway. Look at the faces; no film would render skin in those tones, for instance. Good point. I used the Brush tool in LR to paint over the faces and make them look brighter. Much harder to tell that this wasn't taken with film and the APO 50 Summicron. Maybe I should post it in the film section. 😁 Less compressed JPEG here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-78dGnt/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306783-can-the-m10-monochrom-files-be-made-to-look-film-like/?do=findComment&comment=3920250'>More sharing options...
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