jonnyboy Posted February 22, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 22, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Even though in all those years I never had one in my hands - the Leica SL is been growing inside me for a while now. I was recently shooting a project capturing a bunch of portraits where I needed an high buffer in capture and good resolution and the only color Leica I got is the M8 and the Q. I needed a 50mm for these portraits so the Q didn't make the cut - I ended up using my Sony A7III which served okay. Today I went to the Leica Store in Mayfair and I tried one of those 2nd hand Leica SL (which are now around £2000k - not bad for a 24mp leica body!) I brought my 50mm Summicron V4 with me and shot a few frames. I really liked the feel of the camera, from the ergonomics to the menu and it wasn't as heavy as I thought. Also shooting with it was a pleasure, EVF responsive and everything. My question is how good it can be to get an SL in 2020? Considering you can get an (used) M10 these days for a £3500? I'm not looking for a rangefinder but I could snap one of those external EVF on an M10? The reason why I brought up the M10 comparison is mainly due to the ISO performances. This is a frame I shot a 6400: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Straight out of the camera JPEG. It is quite noisy to me - I would say a bit more than a Sony A7III. Funny enough at 12500 the noise doesn't increase so much! Low ISO performance is not a huge deal breaker for me - but it can be a nice bonus. I'm not entirely sure what's the peak in the M10 (again, I never tried the camera) . I don't know, I have my M8 sat on a shelf for a while now and despite my huge love for it I'm thinking to sell it and get something a bit newer. I will keep my M9MONO for 'rangefinder days' and the SL could be a great new entry for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Straight out of the camera JPEG. It is quite noisy to me - I would say a bit more than a Sony A7III. Funny enough at 12500 the noise doesn't increase so much! Low ISO performance is not a huge deal breaker for me - but it can be a nice bonus. I'm not entirely sure what's the peak in the M10 (again, I never tried the camera) . I don't know, I have my M8 sat on a shelf for a while now and despite my huge love for it I'm thinking to sell it and get something a bit newer. I will keep my M9MONO for 'rangefinder days' and the SL could be a great new entry for me. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306719-i-went-and-tried-the-sl-today/?do=findComment&comment=3917887'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 Hi jonnyboy, Take a look here I went and tried the SL today.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonnyboy Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share #2 Posted February 22, 2020 This was shot a 12500 - it almost look like 6400! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306719-i-went-and-tried-the-sl-today/?do=findComment&comment=3917888'>More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted February 22, 2020 Oh, for the record, I wouldn't be buy SL lenses if I ever get an SL. I will probably use my M's and I would be curious to know if Canon lenses would be ok on those bodies - even if only manually focused (that 24-70mm MKII is quite a good workhorse!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonomaBear Posted February 22, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 22, 2020 Manual focused Canon lenses on the SL are great - we normally shoot them wide open and manual focus anyway. There is no good solution for an automatic Canon adapter for SL -- SL2 and Pana S1 work very well with the Sigma MC-21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted February 22, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 22, 2020 I have the SL2, but actually slightly prefer the SL buttons. The sensor is not quite as good as a Sony sensor, but the body is still supported; I don’t know how long Sony update the firmware for theirs. That said IBIS is transformational. So you might’ve prefer a Panasonic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 22, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) SL for colour, Monochrom for B&W, all with M lenses - what’s not to like? SL or M10? Hmm, same MP, but different sensors. There really is no disadvantage to the SL over M using M lenses. You read here a lot that M lenses are better on M cameras, and this is true, except where the SL is concerned. It is also optimised for M lenses. Some work better on an M camera (the previous 28 Summicron-M ASPH being one) and others work better on the SL (Noctilux 0.95 and 28 Summilux-M ASPH being another). In general terms, if your lenses are modern M ASPH, they will perform as well if not better on the SL. Larger lenses (75 Summilux, Noctilux & 21 Summilux) handle better o the SL; smaller lenses way nicer on the more diminutive M10. Older wide lenses are hit and miss on the SL; you just need to try them. Tele-centric lenses (I’d say 50mm and up) are fine (I even use a 1960 Elmar-M 135 f/4 on my SL). Older wides can be problematic on the SL away from the centre. The SL is easy to set up for M lenses. All the AF settings can be assigned away, and if you set the lower left button to magnification, checking your focus at any part of the frame is a breeze. Then again, the M10 is the essence of simplicity ... Edited February 22, 2020 by IkarusJohn 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 22, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, jonnyboy said: Oh, for the record, I wouldn't be buy SL lenses if I ever get an SL. I will probably use my M's and I would be curious to know if Canon lenses would be ok on those bodies - even if only manually focused (that 24-70mm MKII is quite a good workhorse!) Why buy a Canon lens like the 24-70 v2, when I can get the new Sigma 2.8/24-70 that is probably optically better than the Canon. If you already have EF lenses you can use many with the MC-21 adapter with AF (only SL2). But explicitly buying one is silly, if you can get a optically better native lens in L-mount. ( for less money and with full af capability ). Even more important for the SL, where the MC-21 is not supported. And another point many times discussed: The R lenses are for some users even more interesting than the M Lenses. Better size for the SL (ergonomics), wider choice, closer minimum focus, often less expensive. Edited February 22, 2020 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted February 23, 2020 Well I wouldn't buy the Canon 24-70 as I own one...but the R lenses are definitely a good shout! I don't know, maybe it doesn't make too much sense to have an SL when I already have a Sony A7III (which I use for video by the way) as they both 24MP etc - is just that taking photo with the Sony is never been as pleasant as shooting with a Leica, especially with the files you get. What's the useable max ISO performance you guys experienced with the SL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike3996 Posted February 23, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Nothing wrong with the SL. Just because your calendar says 2020 it doesn't mean the camera is garbage. I'm also entertaining a (now) affordable SL typ 601 for my M lenses and for the occasional vintage SLR glass... (Getting an SL alongside my M240 is way cheaper than upgrading my M240 to M10 or M11 when it comes out.) Secondly, do you even 'need' that top shelf ISO performance, by which I mean if you're printing A3 or so the noise should be very manageable. Edited February 23, 2020 by mike3996 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted February 23, 2020 I don't need crazy high ISO, but 6400 is a nice bonus sometimes. In the end, I'm just trying to get something as modern as possible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted February 25, 2020 how does the EFV of the SL would compare to an M10 paired with EVF2? Does the M10 still have those magnification,focus peak options? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted February 25, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 25, 2020 48 minutes ago, jonnyboy said: how does the EFV of the SL would compare to an M10 paired with EVF2? Does the M10 still have those magnification,focus peak options? M10 with Vis 020 (evf) does have focus peaking and magnification but is an entirely different experience to the EVF of the SL/SL2 - I have one and it stays in the cupboard, mainly because of the clumsy look and feel of it in use on the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 25, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Boojay said: M10 with Vis 020 (evf) does have focus peaking and magnification but is an entirely different experience to the EVF of the SL/SL2 - I have one and it stays in the cupboard, mainly because of the clumsy look and feel of it in use on the M10. The VF20 is to me basically a framing viewfinder. I use it on an M10-D with wide angles. Focus with the rangefinder, see what's in the frame with the viewfinder. I wouldn't use it with focus magnification (well, not much) and certainly not with focus peaking. But on a 24 or 47 MPx live view camera, with the viewfinders that the SLs have, focus magnification is great. It's almost a disappointment to half-press and go back to the real world. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted February 25, 2020 What about those M to SL converters? The Leica ones looks quite expensive and since M are manual what would be the benefits to have a Leica branded? Are those 3rd parties still alright? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musotographer Posted February 25, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 25, 2020 I got a used SL shortly before Xmas at the new low price level and I'm pleased with it. I use only my M & R lenses on it (especially the Rs) - I have absolutely no intention of buying SL or third-party AF glass. It's not as enjoyable to use as an M, nothing like; I have no affection for the SL; but it is a first-rate utilitarian picture-taking machine (the arrangement of the rear buttons is brilliant), and the IQ with those lenses is excellent. The VF is clearly superior to the EVFs with the 240 or M10 - but the M10 with its 020 Visoflex isn't that far behind (and the magnified focus point stays where you've left it it, unlike on the SL, which annoyingly moves it back to the centre after every shot.) I use the Leica adapters; they are expensive, but they are rock-solid and they work. I have just put my M10 and M9 Monochrom up for sale so that I can just about afford the M10M. Colour is increasingly unimportant to me, but I do want it occasionally, so the M10M with RF or EVF as my 'proper' camera with the SL as a very good back-up and workhorse when needed seems to be a workable combination. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 25, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, jonnyboy said: What about those M to SL converters? The Leica ones looks quite expensive and since M are manual what would be the benefits to have a Leica branded? Are those 3rd parties still alright? The one from Leica is intelligent and transfers 6bit code to the camera. All the others are cheaper, but simply dumb (no electronics). So for the full functionality choose the Leica adapter. The Visoflex on the M10 cameras is just terrible, it destroys the M feeling. So simply forget it. (Or try it and if you like it, then it's fine). ISO performance of ISO 10k is nothing unusual. If you really need high ISO, choose a D5 (ISO range can be extended to ISO 3.2 million). What is your priority ? And even more modern is the D6 which is coming this year. Edited February 25, 2020 by caissa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted February 25, 2020 Leica Mayfair just told me they have some SL for as little as £2000 - quite used but still working. What a price! I need to sell my M8, I'm finding it extremely difficult to take part from it but I do have an M9 Mono and I can't justify anymore having 2 cameras for BW. Although my M9M left me in some bad situation it's still my main camera. The M8 on the other hand is such a workhorse, but as we approach those 50MP resolutions its becoming more and more obsolete to go around with a 10MP cameraI guess... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 26, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 26, 2020 16 hours ago, jonnyboy said: What about those M to SL converters? The Leica ones looks quite expensive and since M are manual what would be the benefits to have a Leica branded? Are those 3rd parties still alright? The Leica M to SL and R to SL converters bring up corrections in the raw file that you can't get any other way. I used only R and M lenses on my SLs for at least the first two years that I had them, and this made a difference. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted February 26, 2020 argh I just saw the price of the R adaptor 😰 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musotographer Posted February 26, 2020 Share #20 Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, jonnyboy said: argh I just saw the price of the R adaptor 😰 None of them are cheap, but initially just get the M to SL adapter and use your M lenses, then if you want to, get the R to M later. The two work flawlessly together with my lenses. The R to SL seems to me to be ludicrously expensive and is obviously less flexible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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