zeitz Posted February 13, 2020 Share #61 Posted February 13, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I doubt Don Goldberg recognizes a difference between a thorough CLA and a light CLA. You guys know better than me, but I don't see how a CLA affects the patina. I can see that a new owner would like to control the opening of the camera himself, with his favorite repairman. But someone has to open the camera to verify the identification before it finds a new owner, should it be sold. Once it is open, no reputable repairman is going to put it back together with unresolved issues. My nearly worthless 2 cents - instead of paying high insurance and courier fees, just buy a plane ticket to Germany and hand deliver it to Lars. The trip and working face to face with Lars would be worth any difference in the cost of the camera's trip home to Wetzlar. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 Hi zeitz, Take a look here Auction Find . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tony A. Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share #62 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, zeitz said: My nearly worthless 2 cents - instead of paying high insurance and courier fees, just buy a plane ticket to Germany and hand deliver it to Lars. The trip and working face to face with Lars would be worth any difference in the cost of the camera's trip home to Wetzlar. That's exactly what I would love to do... but my passport expired a while back and I haven't renewed it yet. 😉 Edited February 13, 2020 by Tony A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted February 13, 2020 Share #63 Posted February 13, 2020 Don recently serviced my IIId, taking pictures of the matching interior serial number, clean and lubricate, and adjust the uncommon early self-timer. This timer is evidently quite different than the IIIf and somewhat tempremental. So, he has recent experience, if that is important to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 13, 2020 Share #64 Posted February 13, 2020 Wouldn't a camera that was utilized as the personal camera of a high Leica official not be kept in the records as "geliefert" without calling it a "Werks-Kamera"? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted February 13, 2020 Share #65 Posted February 13, 2020 A camera which went to a Leitz employee (even if it was a gift) would probably be recorded as delivered - though this is all guessing and one has to verify if there is really no entry in the records. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted February 13, 2020 Share #66 Posted February 13, 2020 Quote A few years ago I saw an article about IIId that said, The Leica IIId was manufactured from 1939 to 1947 with 427 units it's a leica IIIc with a self-timer similar to IIIf and IIIg but with a different mechanism different feature the lever of the timer has 6 rings instead of the 4 usually *Note that a leica IIIa served as the basis for a leica IIId, the number 360079 Reality or false information? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted February 13, 2020 Share #67 Posted February 13, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps an prototype? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted February 13, 2020 Share #68 Posted February 13, 2020 Tony, with the US Postal Service now handling passport applications, including taking the picture, passports can be obtained very quickly. You can get expedited service for a small additional fee as I recall. You will need to go to a US Customs Office, which are in most larger cities, and get a form that certifies that the camera has been imported into the US previously. While Germany doesn't care if you bring it in, an overzealous US Customs agent may try to charge duty when you bring it back. The US Customs certificate is proof to the agent that the camera was previously imported and no duty can be charges. There is no charge to get this certification. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 13, 2020 Share #69 Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, UliWer said: A camera which went to a Leitz employee (even if it was a gift) would probably be recorded as delivered - though this is all guessing and one has to verify if there is really no entry in the records. I say that because the cameras that were sold at a reduced price to lower employees were engraved with the employee's name to prevent resale. I have a iiif that is marked that way. I was more thinking of the scenario (transposed to today) like Mr. Kaufmann picking up an M10 from the production hall and use it for a while. A US officer may well have "found" such a camera after the war 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted February 13, 2020 Share #70 Posted February 13, 2020 vor 15 Stunden schrieb jaapv: I feel sorry for the person who put it up for sale in the first place - let's hope he never hears of this. I do not feel sorry for that person at all. Whenever you put something up for sale, you should first get an idea of the approximate value. Granted, you need some deeper insight into Leica cameras to know that "the first IIId" is worth a lot more than your average IIIc, but from the serial number alone one could have guessed that this camera is a little special. In the present case the camera was most likely inherited by the person who sold it, and the person may have thought "well, let's get rid of dad's old camera. It is not digital, so pretty much worthless anyway". And after all, the person selling the camera may well have been very pleased with the 200 bucks or so (I am just guessing here) received in exchange for the camera. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted February 13, 2020 Share #71 Posted February 13, 2020 No matter the value of this camera, its future expertise will give us an explanation and if it is the first IIId discovered, new proof that the history of these Leicas cameras will never be ended.😉 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony A. Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share #72 Posted February 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, wizard said: from the serial number alone one could have guessed that this camera is a little special. The serial number was the thing that really peaked my interest in the camera. I knew virtually nothing about Leica cameras so I stepped outside (cell service was terrible inside the building) and Googled "Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Leica camera". What came up was a bunch of Ebay listings from around $500 up to $2500 so I told my wife "I'm going to bid on this camera and if I can get it cheap enough, maybe I can flip it and make a couple hundred dollars". It went far cheaper than I expected it to. I had no idea it would turn into all this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted February 13, 2020 Share #73 Posted February 13, 2020 vor einer Stunde schrieb Tony A.: I had no idea it would turn into all this. It was your lucky day, for sure. If this camera turns out to be what we think it is, namely the very first Leica IIId (at least judging by its serial number; for example, the very first Leica M3 did not have serial number 700001, but instead some other, later serial number, and Leica, for whatever reason, produced the Leica M3 bearing serial number 700001 at a later date), it would also help to establish or raise the value of your camera if you could find out more about its history. Is there any possibility to contact the seller or former owner to learn more on who owned the camera originally and how it came to the US? Those things sell even better if there is a proven story behind them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryzet Posted February 13, 2020 Share #74 Posted February 13, 2020 it was probably stolen by a gi and he took it home after the war 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted February 13, 2020 Share #75 Posted February 13, 2020 No comment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony A. Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share #76 Posted February 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, harryzet said: it was probably stolen by a gi and he took it home after the war That seems the most likely scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted February 13, 2020 Share #77 Posted February 13, 2020 maybe, maybe not the one he had it first certainly died🤨 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted February 13, 2020 Share #78 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, harryzet said: it was probably stolen by a gi and he took it home after the war I don't think it was stolen. I have spoken to Lager about this, and it was a Works Camera from the records Jim has. Most likely, it was sold in the period immediately after the war when the company was desperate for any sales to bring money in. The IIId was seen as something of a failure as the self-timer was highly temperamental and unreliable. There are many examples in the delivery records of cameras requisitioned from the factory by US Armed Forces, especially the 250 FF and GG cameras. Also a run of IIIcK cameras for Signal Corps that were requisitioned. I have one of these in my collection. I'm sure there were some officers who took advantage of the situation as well. At least the US Army didn't pack up the whole factory and ship it back to the States like the Russians did with the Zeiss works! Jim says there was no disposition of this camera in the records he has seen, but I would not jump to "stolen" at this point. It would be very interesting to find out the true back story. I am working on this as it would make a great story for Viewfinder. Edited February 13, 2020 by derleicaman 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony A. Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share #79 Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, wizard said: Is there any possibility to contact the seller or former owner to learn more on who owned the camera originally and how it came to the US? I am trying to work with the auction house where I bought it to contact the client she got it from. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted February 13, 2020 Share #80 Posted February 13, 2020 On a personal note, my dad was one of those GIs in Germany after the war. He was a 19 year old US Army photographer, stationed as part of the occupation of Germany. His issued camera was a Speed Graphic, but he wanted a Leica. He was only a lowly Corporal, and his chances of getting a Leica through the PX Lottery were slim and none. He went to Wetzlar and none were to be had. He even went to Haus Friedwart and knocked on the door of the Leitz family home. He said that after the butler answered the door, Elsie Leitz yelled from upstairs, "Tell him to go away, we have no Leicas here!" Eventually, he did get a Leica, along with a Leitz enlarger. He obtained a 90/4 Elmar from Paul Wolff, which I still have. For sure he didn't steal any of them. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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