35 FLE only or better 50mm + 28mm

[Anika]

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Thank you all for help, I appreciate it

Using only one 35mm FLE was the great idea to start with the M after I made a break from the system.

I find out that I crop mostly and thats why the idea of getting 50mm, but then ONLY 50 would be silly if I would like to get more on my picture, thats why 28mm.

Having all three is not the way, because I would think only about the lens and not about the subject, still changing and carrying probably all 3 lenses.

I got a lot of input here to NEVER sell the 35mm FLE, so maybe I will really keep the lens - but: if 50mm should join me, is 50mm APO that good? I think of "normal" 50mm Summicron, but I am not sure about focus-shift (if there is any). 

 

[a.noctilux]

Anika, in your place I'd keep the Summilux 35mm,

and as I'm myself Summarit-M lens line late lover, (side note having dozen of other 50mm lenses for M )

 

I would try the 2.4/50 or 2.5/50 Summarit-M compact, light, cheap for Leica lens and IQ at top,

as only one lens (2.4/50mm) to be used for a while to see by yourself if it suits you.

When I need f/1.4, Summilux is there to be used.

Edited February 3, 2020 by a.noctilux

[TomB_tx]

If tested closely the normal Summicron 50 does have some focus shift (as do nearly all fast lenses), but in using then over 50 years I’ve never noticed it in my images. I added the current model a few years ago, and find it an exceptional lens. Certain lighting can induce some “central veiling flare” - but that’s even true of the APO version.

The Summarit 50 seems less susceptible to this flare, but I actually prefer it because of its size and handling.

[lct]

50/2 v4 and v5 have indeed a bit of focus shift at around f/4 but none of my other 50mm M lenses seems to suffer from that. I mean 50/1.4 v3, 50/1.4 asph, 50/2 apo, 50/2.5 and latest 50/2.8. As for flare, the more resistant are probably the 50/1.4 v3 and asph let alone the Sonnar 50/1.5. Neither 50/2 apo nor 50/2 v4/v5 are immune from it. The Summarit 50 (at least my f/2.5 version) is generally well protected but it can produce some nasty flare in special circumstances, typically when the sun is outside the frame at around 10:00 AM. Just for info.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, Anika said:

TI got a lot of input here to NEVER sell the 35mm FLE, so maybe I will really keep the lens - but: if 50mm should join me, is 50mm APO that good? I think of "normal" 50mm Summicron, but I am not sure about focus-shift (if there is any). 

Good advice - 35mm lenses are versatile! Is the 50 APO that good? Interesting question and for me the answer is no. I'm sure its a startlingly good lens but then the Summicron is by no means bad, the Summilux is superb and the I'd guess that the APO is probably as good as Leica can economically make a 50mm. Would it improve the images I take on a 50mm (Summilux aspheric) lens - no I cannot see that under any circumstances it would do so noticably. If you want one then buy one but don't think that it will improve your images because its unlikely to do so.

[M11 for me]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb lct:

Or wait for the M12 multikrom with 250Mpix, put a 16mm lens, stick the camera to a tripod and crop, crop, crop. You don't even need to be there the camera will take pics for you . 

You got it. Congratulations 🙁

But because Leica would not sell lenses anymore the max would not be above 50Mpix.

I think that whatever people write here the next M will have more Mpix.

Edited February 3, 2020 by M10 for me
This post needed a Smiley after all

[lct]

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1 hour ago, Anika said:

I got a lot of input here to NEVER sell the 35mm FLE, so maybe I will really keep the lens - but: if 50mm should join me, is 50mm APO that good? I think of "normal" 50mm Summicron, but I am not sure about focus-shift (if there is any). 

The normal Summicron 50 (v4 & v5) has indeed a bit of focus shift, contrary to the 50/2 apo. The latter is also significantly sharper at edges and corners at f/2 and f/2.8. It matches very well the 35/1.4 FLE but so does the Summilux 50/1.4 asph which is a fast lens as well. Now i would take neither lens for forgiving portraits where the normal Summicron is hard to beat. 

[ChicagoMatthew]

2 hours ago, Anika said:

Thank you all for help, I appreciate it

Using only one 35mm FLE was the great idea to start with the M after I made a break from the system.

I find out that I crop mostly and thats why the idea of getting 50mm, but then ONLY 50 would be silly if I would like to get more on my picture, thats why 28mm.

Having all three is not the way, because I would think only about the lens and not about the subject, still changing and carrying probably all 3 lenses.

I got a lot of input here to NEVER sell the 35mm FLE, so maybe I will really keep the lens - but: if 50mm should join me, is 50mm APO that good? I think of "normal" 50mm Summicron, but I am not sure about focus-shift (if there is any). 

 

If you are keeping the 35fle, which is smart... I love that lens. And you’re not getting the 50apo, I would get the 50mm Summilux over the “normal” Cron. Mostly because the look and feel of the images will more closely match your 35fle.

I recently tested the 50APO vs the 50lux and found that by f4 I couldn’t tell the difference between the two. But, at f2 the APO is as good as the Lux at f5.6. You could shoot pin sharp, flat field landscapes at f2 with the APO, it’s crazy. Not sure why you would, but you could.

 

[ChicagoMatthew]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Now i would take neither lens for forgiving portraits where the normal Summicron is hard to beat. 

What do you mean by “forgiving portraits”? 

[Anika]

13 minutes ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

What do you mean by “forgiving portraits”? 

I think it means „soft“

[Anika]

14 minutes ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

. You could shoot pin sharp, flat field landscapes at f2 with the APO, it’s crazy. Not sure why you would, but you could.

 

Yes, exactly.... and I start to think that the fascination about the 50mm APO is more academic, then in the real life you don’t use its potential. How is it for portraits against the 50mm Summilux? Any better? Then the Lux would be much much cheaper.

[lct]

32 minutes ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

What do you mean by “forgiving portraits”? 

Pictures of people don't want getting angry at you .

[pgk]

19 minutes ago, Anika said:

Yes, exactly.... and I start to think that the fascination about the 50mm APO is more academic, then in the real life you don’t use its potential. How is it for portraits against the 50mm Summilux? Any better? Then the Lux would be much much cheaper.

Anyone who is dissatisfied with the performance of the 50mm Summilux aspheric will be dissatisfied with any lens.In practice it delivers fabulous results. The APO may have higher theoretical performance but in reality the Summilux will be close enough.

[MaticB]

I did test for myself: I bought 35 summicron, and only shot with it for some time. If it would had suit me well, I intended to buy summilux 35 and sell both 50 summilux, and 28 elmarit. But then I found it not wide enough in many occasions, so I sold 35 summicron and 28 elmarit instead, and bought 28 summilux. I'm staying with 50 and 28 summiluxes for the rest of my life, but anyway, if I swear on only one lens, that would be 35mm.

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, Anika said:

get rid of it

If you get rid of it, you not only have no 35 but you don’t have a Summilux either. I wouldn’t want to miss its selective focus in favor of a 50 which has nice bokeh indeed but is quite narrow for street. 

[Fedro]

if you want and can, have all 3 of them - RF for me is at its most powerful with these 3 focal lengths

if you want to keep only one, the 35 FLE is ideal. I have had, bought, sold, kept etc several 28s and 50s. I usually keep several at the same time

I only have had 1 35 for several years, the FLE. That lens is simply perfect for an M

[Anika]

20 minutes ago, MaticB said:

. I'm staying with 50 and 28 summiluxes for the rest of my life, but anyway, if I swear on only one lens, that would be 35mm.

You know that you don’t make anything easier for me with that?  

[otto.f]

4 hours ago, Anika said:

, is 50mm APO that good

Only at 2.0. There was a test here indicating that already at 4.0 all 50’s are practically equal in IQ. Do not underestimate the 50 Elmar-M btw, best value for money in the  Leica house. For that price you can easily discover if 50 is something for you at all. A Summilux 75 is a miracle on a Monochrome, especially with the perfect ranfinder of the M10 and not as far from a 50 as the figures suggest. Pairs well with a 35. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by otto.f

[IkarusJohn]

5 hours ago, Anika said:

Thank you all for help, I appreciate it

Using only one 35mm FLE was the great idea to start with the M after I made a break from the system.

I find out that I crop mostly and thats why the idea of getting 50mm, but then ONLY 50 would be silly if I would like to get more on my picture, thats why 28mm.

Having all three is not the way, because I would think only about the lens and not about the subject, still changing and carrying probably all 3 lenses.

I got a lot of input here to NEVER sell the 35mm FLE, so maybe I will really keep the lens - but: if 50mm should join me, is 50mm APO that good? I think of "normal" 50mm Summicron, but I am not sure about focus-shift (if there is any). 

 

I've had two 35 FLE's, and sold them both.  I never gelled with the lens, and I found the field curvature disturbing.  Others love it, and it is clearly a very good lens.

Can I suggest an alternative approach?  Back in the day, when you bought a camera, you got a kit lens with it.  For my Nikons, it was generally a 55mm lens, and it stayed in the box.  They were very average and very boring.  Over the years, I bought and sold a few Nikkor lenses - there was no internet, so my choices were purely based on the focal lengths I preferred, magazine reviews and dealer recommendation.  In the end, my most used lenses were a short(ish) telephoto (the marvellous Nikkor 180/2.8 IFED) and a wide zoom (the equally fabulous AF-S 14-24 zoom).  That was it - nothing in the middle.  Interestingly, I found I was using the zoom at the wide end more often than not.

I've come to realise that a perfectly framed and processed image of a beautiful scene, taken at head height, bores me witless.  A standard lens (ie, "normal" field of view) for the 135 film format is 43mm.  That means, a "full frame" camera with a 43mm lens on it will provide a "natural" field of view.  And I think that is what makes such images boring for me.  What I find interesting in photography is not perfectly recording what is there, but providing a challenging point of view (camera placement) or the interesting results you get from very wide fields of view, shallow depths of field, or just the aberrations of the lens (I do have a 35 Summilux-M pre-asph).  A good image needs either interesting content or tension in every aspect of its composition.

The Leica fast 50's are fantastic in this respect, and most of them are very good.  The Noctilux is very special, but it's big, heavy and expensive.  The 50 Summilux-M ASPH is almost as good, relatively diminutive and reasonably priced (for Leica), and like the Noctilux also APO (though neither says so on the box).  I've always loved the look of the black chrome version, with the red numbering.  I have a silver chrome version, and it's buttery smooth.  If I were to choose one, I would go for a black chrome version of either the APO Summicron (I also have this lens, and it is wonderful) or the Summilux ASPH.

Why choose a fast 50?  Because it's a very versatile sweet spot for the Leica M system.  I don't think I would have an M camera without a 50.  The combination of a shallow depth of field with the narrower field of view (compared to 35mm) provides lots of creative options.

I tend to pair my 50's with a 28 - either on my M10-D or my v1 Monochrom.  There's something about the 28 which gives an expanded field of view - it provides the tension and slightly unexpected composition which I like.  It also uses the entire viewfinder, without needing to go to an external viewfinder.  Combined with the option of a shallower depth of field at f/1.4 makes this a very interesting and satisfying lens.  I also have the 28 Summaron-M - it's a little gem, but I'm not sure I would use it as my standard 28.  The results are very satisfying on the Monochrom (paired with the 50 Summilux ASPH).

My ideal choice (limited to two) would be the black chrome APO Summicron-M 50 ASPH and the silver chrome Summilux-M 28 ASPH (not the silver anodised; the chrome version is made from brass) - they pair very nicely.

I would suggest that you think about the field of view you like, and what you want from your lenses in terms of depth of field and the character you want to get from the combination of lens and camera, and make the decision that way.  There are few bad choices (other than accumulating too many lenses, but even that's fun).

Cheers
John

Edited February 3, 2020 by IkarusJohn

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[caloosajo]

I tested the M10M with the 35mm Lux FLE the other day, and let out a visceral gasp. Or maybe it was a guffaw. 
 

I love my 50 Lux / 28 Elmarit combo, but if not for my serendipity in obtaining these, I think I’d be lusting after the above setup.