90mm M lenses which to buy Summicron f2 VS. Summarit f2.4

[TomB_tx]

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The 2.5 Summarits were made with the optical head slipped into the focusing mount from the front, then a thin threaded ring attached to it from the rear, tightened with a lens spanner from the rear to secure the head to the mount. (Many lenses have similar construction.) When torque is applied to the front of the optical head, it can shift a bit an gradually loosen the lock ring.

When the ring loosens a bit the optical head can show the play described above, and the 35 & 50 may show loose feeling clicks in the aperture ring. Properly tightening the ring eliminates both issues.

I bought a couple of used Summarits with these issues at good prices and fixed them “instantly” by tightening the lock ring with an adjustable lens spanner. After a few years one had to be snugged up again, but not since then.

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[rnl]

https://richardnlipow.com/grand-canyon  summicron f2 apo...I purchased this early version used.  it takes flawless exposures

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by rnl

[michali]

4 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

The 2.5 Summarits were made with the optical head slipped into the focusing mount from the front, then a thin threaded ring attached to it from the rear, tightened with a lens spanner from the rear to secure the head to the mount. (Many lenses have similar construction.) When torque is applied to the front of the optical head, it can shift a bit an gradually loosen the lock ring.

When the ring loosens a bit the optical head can show the play described above, and the 35 & 50 may show loose feeling clicks in the aperture ring. Properly tightening the ring eliminates both issues.

I bought a couple of used Summarits with these issues at good prices and fixed them “instantly” by tightening the lock ring with an adjustable lens spanner. After a few years one had to be snugged up again, but not since then.

Tom- thanks for this input. I have an adjustable lens spanner, I'll give it a try.

Best

Mike 

[eev776]

On 1/16/2020 at 5:34 PM, rnl said:

https://richardnlipow.com/grand-canyon  summicron f2 apo...I purchased this early version used.  it takes flawless exposures

 

 

Great photo thanks for sharing!

[Cowz]

As I am using my 90 Summicron on a M9 Monochrom, I did not need it to be apochromatic.  I picked up a gorgeous pre APO circa 1983 with 55mm filter and it is freaken awesome.. so much so, that my M9M has become a one lens camera.  

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[epand56]

On 1/15/2020 at 8:30 PM, michali said:

Thank you.  Here's an image I took a few days ago with the CL & 90mm Elmarit  f2.8  - ISO100 f4 @  1/40s.  Romeo watching birds from my study.......he's only allowed to watch!

I've hand coded my lens and it is recognised on the M10, CL & SL2.

Another point for the Elmarit 90/2.8. It's a wonderful lens, much lighter than the Summicron and if if you don't know which picture is which, you can't spot the difference. I had mine 6 bit coded at Will van Manen - Kamera-Service for a very little money and works perfectly.

[eev776]

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Here is my decision. I went to the Leica store in West Hollywood and checked out all 3 lenses below for my Leica CL camera:

APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH.
Summarit-M 90mm f/2.4
APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4

I was thinking to trade-in my two month old APO-Vario-Elmar-T 55-135mm f/3.5-4.5 ASPH Lens, that I felt was a bit slow and I prefer M lenses. I took pictures with each lens, from same spot and compared them in Lightroom.

1. APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH. Lens - fantastic state of art lens, creates great element separation for landscape architectural photography that I need it for, exceptional build, gorgeous bokeh, love it’s size, slightly heavy, but it’s ok.
2. Summarit-M 90mm f/2.4 Lens - did not like at all, feels like a cheap build, not easy to focus indoors, hood is way too long, images came out flat and boring
3. APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4 Lens - good lens, but too long for me I would rather keep my Vario-Elmar-T 55-135mm

So finally I got APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH. Lens, used for $3,195 in in great condition and decided to keep my APO-Vario-Elmar-T 55-135mm f/3.5-4.5 ASPH Lens for autofocus reasons and 135mm focal length.

Images below show how it looks on my CL.

 

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Edited January 19, 2020 by eev776

[james.liam]

I have the R version. Seems shorter but greater girth.

Great lens but not for subjects closer than ~10 meters.

[adan]

2 hours ago, james.liam said:

I have the R version. Seems shorter but greater girth.

True - but only because part of the length is permanently built into the mirror chamber of the R cameras, rather than the lens.

Image plane to front element, the length is the same.

[oudjunk]

I have never used the 90 summarit 2.4 but i have used summarit 75 f2.5 with my leica T 

i do not care about the specification because i do not understand about that haha

but i just see the produced picture from this lens

I like the sharpness, contrast, and bokeh from this lens and i think this lens is underrated from others. 

I think the 90 is the same character as 75  

i have used the 90 summicron v3 on leica T as well. 

the think that i like 90 summicron over summarit is the creamy bokeh with a little bit glow  

[eev776]

I been using my APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH. for whole week everyday shooting, it works just fantastic, I used it a lot in low light conditions, it creates gorgeous artistic photography.

[Krycek]

Hello,

I would like to have some advice concerning the Summicron M 90mm III (11136 / 1980-1998) compared to the Summarit M90mm f2,5/f2,4.

These three lenses can be found second-hand for a similar price.

The advantage of the Summicron is that it has an integrated lens hood.

The range of the focusing ring is reputed to be very short on the Summarit. Is this a disadvantage on a mirrorless camera like the SL2-S?

Is the rendering of these three lenses similar? Or is the Summarit more modern than the Summicron 11136?

Thank you in advance for your advice?  

[lct]

The Summarit 90 (at least my f/2.4 version) has a more modern IQ in that it has more acutance than the Summicron 90/2 v3 but it is less forgiving for little skin imperfections. It shows less color fringing than the Summicron, w/o competing with a superior lens like the Tele-Tessar 85/4 on this point. The latter is a slower lens though. As for hoods i don't like screw-in ones like the Summarit's so i prefer the Summicron or the Elmarit 90/2.8 v2 in that. The bayonet hood of the Tele-Tessar works fine too but it is not reversible, contrary to that of the Skopar 90/2.8 apo. Matter of tastes anyway, same about focus throws.

[pippy]

I agree with lct's assessment of the rendering of these lenses.

OTOH I do happen to prefer a screw-on hood to the slip-out type and the hood used with the Summarit is far more effective than the slip-out hood of the v3 Summicron (I have the 11 136 / 11 137); especially if a filter is fitted to the v3. The Summarit is lighter and slightly more compact. The focus-throw of the v3 Summicon is greater but, in its favour, this aids greatly in achieving accurate-focus when shooting at close range wide-open.

I have the f2.5 version of the Summarit and the Summicron is definitely softer ('more forgiving'?) when both are used at the widest end of the aperture range so for different styles of portrait photography - it could be argued - each has its own advantage over the other. Stopped-down, of course, both Summicron and Summarit are superb performers and rendering is effectively the same (IMX).

Summing-up in an objective way is inconclusive. The Summarit does everything superbly. It really is a great all-rounder of a lens and vastly underrated. Smaller, lighter and - especially in f2.5 form - usually cheaper than the v3 Summicron it makes for a sound choice. On balance I'd say that the Summarit does everything just slightly 'better' than the v3 Summicron.

Having said all that when I grab a 90mm for a days snapping I will almost always pick a Summicron simply because I love the way they render at f2.0 if such a situation arises.

Philip.

EDIT : I've never used a mirrorless camera so couldn't possibly comment on that aspect.

Edited December 18, 2023 by pippy

[Krycek]

@lct, @pippyThank you for taking the time to write a reply!

Can you say that at full aperture the bokeh of the Summarit looks more " nervous " than that of the Summicron?

[lct]

12 minutes ago, Krycek said:

@lct, @pippyThank you for taking the time to write a reply!

Can you say that at full aperture the bokeh of the Summarit looks more " nervous " than that of the Summicron?

I'm not good at comparing lenses at different apertures, so no f/2 vs f/2.4 comparo from me sorry. Now at f/2.4 i don't find the bokeh of the Summarit more nervous than that of the Summicron but bokeh is a subjective matter as you know.

[pgk]

I've owned several 90mm Summicrons and now have the Summarit. Perhaps I was unlucky, but I had issues with focus on several Summicrons in that they did not focus accurately. They are mostly much older leses and will potentially have seen quite a lot of use. I would therefore factor in the cost of servicing and callibrating them if possible as this may be needed if there is no sign of a lens having been serviced recently. Just my view though.

As regards hoods, well built in hoods are certainly convenient but rarely as effective as screw on hoods in my experience, because they are usually a compromise between design and function. The faster Summicron is likely to need a better hood because it has a larger front element and thus may be more susceptible to flare.

I like the Summarit which performs very well. If you don't plan on using the Summicron wide-open then the Summarit would, in my opinion, be the better lens, especially at the current prices being asked (I expect that they will rise as the 35/50s have. They will be coded too). If you intend to use the lenses wide-open a lot then look for a decent Summicron and see if you can get one which you can thoroughly check with an option to return in case it requires callibration. Or get one cheap enough to make it worth servicing.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Krycek said:

...Can you say that at full aperture the bokeh of the Summarit looks more " nervous " than that of the Summicron?...

OK; here's a very non-lab-conditions comparison I've just rattled off. Pics were taken on the M-D so colour-balance changes a bit - probably as outside light intensity changed - and also the camera-position swivelled-down slightly when I went from the Summarit to the Summicron so framing is also slightly different. Apologies!

Lenses were used at 0.9m. Focus-point for lenses was on red bauble to left of images; this was to allow for out-of-focus objects both before and behind focus-plane to be inspected.

The pic in the centre is the Summarit shot at f2.5. To the left is the image from the Summicron when shot at f2.0. To the right is Summicron set to f2.4;

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Philip.

Edited December 18, 2023 by pippy

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