Does AF make you lazy?

[Stuart Richardson]

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Or perhaps just live in a country with effective public transport? (I know I don't...)

AF does not make you lazy if you use it to do what you decide you want it to do. For example, is the difference between center point AF and a rangefinder or manual focus SLR all that huge? Instead of pointing at something and turning a focus ring until it comes into focus, you are pointing at something and pressing a button which drives a focus motor until the camera is in focus. In many cases (not all), the electronic aid can do it faster and more accurately than many people can, whether because of their eyesight or speed. I use a lot of manual focus cameras, and in many cases I prefer them, but I also happily use AF if it is well implemented and accurate. When it comes to full field AF where the camera choices the points of focus etc, I would not really say that it makes you lazy so much as indifferent to controlling that aspect of your photo. I suppose that can be a bad thing at times, but I suspect that it saves more photos than it ruins.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

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[sillbeers15]

9 minutes ago, helged said:

No. But I have been a member of a local, non-profit car sharing organisation for 20 years now. So I have access to a car when convenient. Not often, but it happens. Otherwise I bike. And I hardly fly (anymore). 'Nough said; let's get back on (topic) track... 

You make us shy for not going 'green'.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I find AF is more accurate than RF if I am in a hurry.  If I take my time, they are closer, but I still trust AF more.

Not even one Mercedes here (Audi and Volvo actually take that spot in the local pecking order).  And our kids, with their army IDs can go anywhere in the country for free on public transport.  We tend to get 10 years use out of each Mazda or Hyundai.

[pippy]

I'm not sure about AF making me lazy in my professional work (80% of my time involves studio still-life) for which I almost always use DSLRs. As Stuart Richardson mentions (in post #28) manually selecting focus-point with a DSLR requires a similar amount of consideration to choosing the preferred focus-point with an M.

OTOH for all my personal work I found that using AF and a DSLR really DID make me lazy to the point where, eventually, my snaps might well have been correctly focussed and correctly exposed but they were often quite dreadfully dull because I wasn't putting in much thought about framing the shot before pressing the button. Going back to shooting with an M required a return to a much more considered approach and I discovered that the 'fun' - which had been all but lost during the DSLR days - came back in to the whole experience and magnified ten-fold to boot.

In fact I've just picked up an ex-demo M-D Typ 262 (the one without a screen) which places the 'think before you shoot' bar one stage further forward. My big problem is what to do with my much-loved M9-P?......😕......

FWIW I, too, have an M-B but as it has the 6-speed manual gearbox and is equipped with the Sports Pack it's not too soft.......

Philip.

[Arrow]

This one has got fixed focus. So, no need bother about AF. The other parameters have to be carefully thought about. Not the latest design, but still works well

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Edited January 9, 2020 by Arrow

[thighslapper]

Does AF make you lazy ? Of course not. 

3 things make a great image ..... subject, composition and light.

How you capture them is in many ways irrelevant.

Ideally, there needs to be as little intervention between you and what you are looking at as possible. AF is just another help along the way.

Unfortunately most of the 'auto' camera functions are not infallible so there is still plenty for folk to play with, particularly those who want to delude themselves that it is tinkering with the camera controls that produces great images rather than their choice of where they point it. 

[Alistairm]

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AF is great in the right situations, and almost essential with some modern lenses and the fly-by-wire with EVF experience. 

I have more fun shooting MF, but have plenty of shots I wouldn’t of got without AF. Now ask me if auto-ISO, a WYSIWYG EVG and exposure compensation make me lazy... 

[Ko.Fe.]

Where are those who understand the feature, using it and many of those who don't and don't need it.

I don't need AF for street photogaphy, because I'm not AF in the middle user.

And MF is useless for BiF. 

Does AF makes me lazy? Sure. Face, eye recognition makes portraits in focus as well. 

[ianman]

23 hours ago, setuporg said:

But if you are capable of using an M, shouldn’t you prefer that?

I don't think one should generalise. I use the M because photography is a hobby and should be fun. I take no pleasure in using a camera that does everything for me. So as long as my eyes are good enough for manual focus, that is what I will be using most of the time. I have an X-Pro2 which is sometimes switched to autofocus on very specific occasions.

[evikne]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

3 things make a great image ..... subject, composition and light.

I would like to add one more thing: timing. At least with moving subjects. 

And that's another task that is perfectly suited for a Leica M.

[PeterGA]

All the people who think that their eye hand co-ordination is good enough to capture the BS decisive moment notion ( btw an idea that HCB himself derided as nonsensical) should get their IPhone out start the stop watch function and see how fast they can start and stop the clock - the typical person can't do any better than 0.08 - 0.12 of a second.

Now add the focus + compose elements to the equation and you are looking at how long in optimum circumstances with the very best reflexes ? 

This explains (amongst other things) the phenomenon of internet forum posters posting images of still subject matter / bored cats and floral arrangements to demonstrate the wonders of their expensive lenses and cameras and tell each other how to make better photographs - with words. This also explains the veneration that people have for landscape photography - making lovely sunset shots of dramatic landscapes with lots of impossible lighting - nothing moves - and even if nothing is moving you best use your focus spot on what you want in critical focus with large megapixel cameras or lens types designed to handle them - because focus lock and recompose won't get you optimal focus.

anything with real world movement you need and will use anything that helps you shoot faster and be more consistent whilst controlling for subject ( model) composition ( story board) and light via artificial or enhanced lighting. In studio with practised models working within a fairly confined DOF and controlling for light/composition via lights and choice of lens - manual focus can work quite well at apertures that give the photographer the DOF required to get it all in focus (in fact better in thos etype of situations) because it really isn't manual focus it is hyperfocal focusing - switch to a fast lens wide open - and it all changes.

I actually think the reverse regarding general situation photography - and that is that manual focus is what makes people 'lazy' photographers - any imposed limitation imposed on the creative process is just that.

 

 

 

 

[meerec]

52 minutes ago, PeterGA said:

All the people who think that their eye hand co-ordination is good enough to capture the BS decisive moment notion ( btw an idea that HCB himself derided as nonsensical) should get their IPhone out start the stop watch function and see how fast they can start and stop the clock - the typical person can't do any better than 0.08 - 0.12 of a second.

Now add the focus + compose elements to the equation and you are looking at how long in optimum circumstances with the very best reflexes ? 

This explains (amongst other things) the phenomenon of internet forum posters posting images of still subject matter / bored cats and floral arrangements to demonstrate the wonders of their expensive lenses and cameras and tell each other how to make better photographs - with words. This also explains the veneration that people have for landscape photography - making lovely sunset shots of dramatic landscapes with lots of impossible lighting - nothing moves - and even if nothing is moving you best use your focus spot on what you want in critical focus with large megapixel cameras or lens types designed to handle them - because focus lock and recompose won't get you optimal focus.

anything with real world movement you need and will use anything that helps you shoot faster and be more consistent whilst controlling for subject ( model) composition ( story board) and light via artificial or enhanced lighting. In studio with practised models working within a fairly confined DOF and controlling for light/composition via lights and choice of lens - manual focus can work quite well at apertures that give the photographer the DOF required to get it all in focus (in fact better in thos etype of situations) because it really isn't manual focus it is hyperfocal focusing - switch to a fast lens wide open - and it all changes.

I actually think the reverse regarding general situation photography - and that is that manual focus is what makes people 'lazy' photographers - any imposed limitation imposed on the creative process is just that.

 

 

 

 

It’s a long post Peter but I don’t understand what point you are trying to make ... either I’m totally dumb or it’s one of those Friday morning slow moments for me 🤣

I am one of the called out “guilty of shooting my cat” dudes here, however I consider this a separate and much beloved genre of photography, and at least in my opinion, my cat shots are always full of emotion, telling a story, premeditated, and pure gorgeous — never “lazy cat photography” 😎🤓😳🙀

[PeterGA]

56 minutes ago, meerec said:

It’s a long post Peter but I don’t understand what point you are trying to make ... either I’m totally dumb or it’s one of those Friday morning slow moments for me 🤣

I am one of the called out “guilty of shooting my cat” dudes here, however I consider this a separate and much beloved genre of photography, and at least in my opinion, my cat shots are always full of emotion, telling a story, premeditated, and pure gorgeous — never “lazy cat photography” 😎🤓😳🙀

Well I've had my coffee now and it is another good day in the market fo me according to Bloomberg..so summarise/re-phrase:

Manual focus has many limitations with rangefinder cameras and if one reduces their interest in photography to an acceptance of these limitations - that is lazy.

edit: Also I expect some push back on the proposition -:)

Edited January 10, 2020 by PeterGA

[bags27]

I realize it shouldn't technically make a difference, but when I'm shooting manual (which is most of the time these days), I take much greater consideration of depth of field. It's more about starting every photo from scratch, so I go through my mental checklist.

[meerec]

1 hour ago, PeterGA said:

Well I've had my coffee now and it is another good day in the market fo me according to Bloomberg

😳🥳

[PeterGA]

17 minutes ago, Artin said:

That is just a boat load of B S , do not generalize everyone in here as weekend warriors with deep pockets taking pictures of cats and landscapes. What you think you are achieving today with fancy 350 AF point Camera, some of us were working with complete manual focus and mechanical cameras making a good living and keeping our clients satisfied and  breathless. 

 I have done fashion and lifestyle with Hassy cm500 and RZ 67s , formula 1 , and Pro Hockey, and Basketball with Canon  FD , Annual reports , automotive advertising and Catalogues with Sinar , Built up a multi million dollar agency in 15 years and there was not a single Auto Focus Lens in that line up.  Auto focus makes things Easy.  Put everything auto and click 10 frames a second you are bound to gat a decent shot. My sons wedding photographer ( a so called pro ) did not even know what the ring on my Leica m lens was with the decimal numbers on them . Dude did not even know what an aperture ring was.  Does anyone remember prefocusing the focus point in sports photography anymore by  anticipating the movements of your subject. 

You've already got a photo of one of my Alpas in previous post - the point made there was way over the head of OP - like a few other blokes in here - maybe busy counting their Mercs - as IF a Merc is some kind of aspirational vehicle LOL This is my last most recent Sinar kit...I'm happy to be schooled by anyone anytime champ....just show me your photos whenever you feel like it..words don't do it for me..-:)

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I think you've missed the point of my post - which is an utter rejection of the notion that somehow 'manual'  focusing helps make better images - as suggested by a few nuff nuffs in the thread already - no one was talking about Tech camera shooting or camera systems which dont have the amenity of autofocus etc etc etc...

and finally please don't put words in my mouth re categorising people in this forum - they are your words not mine.

 

 

[PeterGA]

@meerec 

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[meerec]

@PeterGA shot on Sinar ...? 😬

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[PeterGA]

3 minutes ago, meerec said:

@PeterGA shot on Sinar ...? 😬

Would have taken an hour to set it all up by which time the cat would have moved...just one of the reasons I will never go back to all that tech camera/MF back 'stuff'...

 

SL2/75 and 'Lulu' my cat -  this arvo.

[pippy]

11 hours ago, PeterGA said:

I actually think the reverse regarding general situation photography - and that is that manual focus is what makes people 'lazy' photographers...

Whilst I agree with much of what you wrote in your earlier post, Peter, with all due respect I can't quite see how this latter part can be the case.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but my own problem (for my personal work) which I had in using autofocus, autoexposure, autoanything did not lie with the equipment; rather than with my approach to using the equipment. Autofocus can - and does - make a photographers life easier and for a pro this can be a very good thing. For my professional work I use AF all the time. My pro work is always shot using studio flash so autoexposure doesn't come into the equation but I'm equally sure that in the right conditions and in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing AE can also remove one more task which might compromise a shoot.

My problem with using an autoeverything DSLR for my personal shots really was MY problem; not that of my equipment. I adopted the 'wrong' approach to using the kit and I became lazy. No question about it. With no aperture ring and no shutter-speed dial to set physically It got to the point where I was so careless, not having to set these parameters, that quite often I didn't even pay attention to what aperture / speed I was using. This was all MY fault; not my equipment's fault. Going back to using a fully-manual camera gave me the kick up the backside I so dearly deserved and, once again, I now pay full and proper attention to each aspect of the creative process before pushing the button.

As we're posting a few pics of our 'antique' cameras here was my daily shooter for the first 20-odd years of my working life;

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Wonderful old girl to use, of course, but I can't in all honesty say I'd like to turn the clock back to those days...

Philip.