SL lenses on SL2 vs S1R

[scott kirkpatrick]

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About a month ago, I posted some highly detailed long distance shots of a cityscape taken with the SL APO 35 and my S1R.  It did quite well.  So now here is the same tiny hunk of Nahlaot shot with the 35 on my new SL2 rendered at 100%:

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U1000682 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and I'll repost the S1R shot for comparison.  They are taken from slightly different positions, since a deep puddle had formed where I stood before.

P1022719 copy2 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

The two shots were taken at different times of day, so only the sunlit faces of buildings should be compared.  Still, I think it is a win for the SL2.

Edited December 28, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

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[thighslapper]

The flat lighting flatters the SL2 image.

I'll have to run some comparisons under identical conditions. The default sharpening on the S1R in LR also tends to coarsen images to some extent ('detail' is too high). 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Fair enough.  I don't usually leave the house with more than one camera and one lens.  And for a tripod, just a Manfrotto tabletop stuck in a pants pocket.

I processed both in C1.  I might have lifted some shadows with a slider.

Edited December 28, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[thighslapper]

I'll take my fully loaded 12kg landscape backpack and big tripod ...... 

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb thighslapper:

The flat lighting flatters the SL2 image.

I'll have to run some comparisons under identical conditions. The default sharpening on the S1R in LR also tends to coarsen images to some extent ('detail' is too high). 

I sold my S1R, kept the S1 and can’t do them.  You’ll find that under conditions that Scott used above, the two cameras produce entirely the same result, other than AWB by the camera. If anything, the S1R files come out looking a bit sharper at 100 percent view because of the way Panasonic processes their RAWs.  I have two copies of the 50 Summicron-SL and shot both cameras side by side.  My thoughts were that after Sony, Panasonic are masters of RAW file cooking. 

[MarkinVan]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

I'll take my fully loaded 12kg landscape backpack and big tripod ...... 

A picture please, of that fully loaded 12kg backpack and how it's packed.

Just ordered my SL2 with SL 35mm, so looking for backpack solutions for that and my 3 SL zooms. So far decided not to sell my SL.

Your photo's show that you get out there.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

May your '20's Roar. 

Cheers!

[Leicaiste]

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I recommend one of the Kiboko’s  

https://www.guragear.com/shop

[SrMi]

Glad to see that Gura Gear is back (it was merged into Tamrac a couple of years ago). I used them exclusively for many years and especially liked the now discontinued Cobe shoulder bag. They are light and fit a lot.
However, I have entirely switched to Mindshift Backlight backpacks. Their main advantage is that they load from the back, not as most do from the front. The back of the backpack goes against your body and is not getting dirty and wet if loaded from the back.

[thighslapper]

19 hours ago, MarkinVan said:

A picture please, of that fully loaded 12kg backpack and how it's packed.

Just ordered my SL2 with SL 35mm, so looking for backpack solutions for that and my 3 SL zooms. So far decided not to sell my SL.

Your photo's show that you get out there.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

May your '20's Roar. 

Cheers!

The 90-280 was always the main issue in terms of size and weight ...... particularly with a body attached ..... so it has been sidelined by the Lumix 70-200. I used to take my CL + 18-55 for quick shots and as a 1.5x converter and second body ..... but I now have a second 47mpx body in the SL2 so I take it with the Lumix 2x converter for the 70-200. The weight and size penalty in the change is small. 

The 70-200 with SL2 attached and S1R with the SL 24-90 fit easily in the large DSLR camera unit of my Shimoda Explore 40l with the SL 16-35 and space for a prime (I usually stick my Arca D4 head in the spare compartment instead), filters, straps, radio remote release, batteries, cloths etc The top compartment and front pockets are free for extra clothes etc. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather have two bodies with lenses attached at all times rather than mess around changing lenses in the sort of weather we usually have in the UK. The 16-24 end gets the least use so the 16-35 is only attached as needed. With the 3 lenses I can cover 16-400mm. For landscape, f8 at tele-converted 400mm is not an issue. With IBIS +/- OIS I can take low ISO shots with any lens without a tripod if necessary. 

I've tried lots of backpacks, but the Shimoda designs are the only ones deep enough to fit zooms the size of the 16-35 and 24-90 end up and SL/S1R bodies long dimension up ....... Mindshifts were just too shallow and there was no room for any clothing etc. The big downside is the temptation to carry too much ...... which is fine for a day of intermittent hiking that doesn't involve relentless ascents and is interspersed with longish spells taking photos but not for a route march or mountaineering. Shimoda bags are by far the most comfortable in use and allow this sort of weight without major shoulder issues...... and they are airline carry-on compatible dimensions as well..... and virtually waterproof without an added cover (they supply one but my bag has remained 100% dry without it in sustained downpours).

 

[MarkinVan]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

It goes a long way and is much appreciated.

[Leicaiste]

17 hours ago, SrMi said:

Glad to see that Gura Gear is back (it was merged into Tamrac a couple of years ago). I used them exclusively for many years and especially liked the now discontinued Cobe shoulder bag. They are light and fit a lot.
However, I have entirely switched to Mindshift Backlight backpacks. Their main advantage is that they load from the back, not as most do from the front. The back of the backpack goes against your body and is not getting dirty and wet if loaded from the back.

The reason I use the Gura Gear 30L are :

- the straps can be easily stored in the back of the bag which is great when it is attached to a wheel cart, put in overhead bins, in the trunk of a SUV or on the seat of a car.

- the butterfly opening. 1) You only have to open half of the bag at a time, which means less dust or rain coming in and if you let go the flap it will fall in place and better protect your gears (great in an open safari vehicle or on a boat)  2) If you forget to close the zipper of one or both butterfly openings, you reduce greatly the risk of cameras or lenses falling out when putting it on your back or if the vehicle stop abruptly. It happen to me several times and (luckily) nothing bigger than filters felt out. 3) Opening the butterfly flaps doesn’t increase the surface used by the bag. Great again on a car seat or in a trunk or on your lap. 
 

To be play safe I attach it now with Sandows in safari vehicle. 😉

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[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Leicaiste said:

The reason I use the Gura Gear 30L are :

- the straps can be easily stored in the back of the bag which is great when it is attached to a wheel cart, put in overhead bins, in the trunk of a SUV or on the seat of a car.

- the butterfly opening. 1) You only have to open half of the bag at a time, which means less dust or rain coming in and if you let go the flap it will fall in place and better protect your gears (great in an open safari vehicle or on a boat)  2) If you forget to close the zipper of one or both butterfly openings, you reduce greatly the risk of cameras or lenses falling out when putting it on your back or if the vehicle stop abruptly. It happen to me several times and (luckily) nothing bigger than filters felt out. 3) Opening the butterfly flaps doesn’t increase the surface used by the bag. Great again on a car seat or in a trunk or on your lap. 
 

To be play safe I attach it now with Sandows in safari vehicle. 😉

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Gura Gear has served me very well for many years traveling all around the world.

Yes, hiding the straps while traveling is indeed practical, but with Gura Gear, it takes a while to put them back on if you need them. With MindShift Backlight, you fold and connect the straps toward the front, and they are entirely out of the way as well (I need the quick switching occasionally on airports).

Having the opening on your back, like MindShift Backlight, is the safest way to prevent equipment from falling out, IMO.

After using it for many years, I am not sure that I miss the butterfly system. I certainly do not miss the sticky zippers of Gura Gear 😞 (we have/had about 6 of them, and they all have/had some issues). Maybe the zipper issue has been resolved in the meantime.

 

 

 

[MarkinVan]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

The 90-280 was always the main issue in terms of size and weight ...... particularly with a body attached .... I now have a second 47mpx body in the SL2 so I take it with the Lumix 2x converter for the 70-200. The weight and size penalty in the change is small. 

The 70-200 with SL2 attached and S1R  With the 3 lenses I can cover 16-400mm. For landscape, f8 at tele-converted 400mm is not an issue. With IBIS +/- OIS I can take low ISO shots with any lens without a tripod if necessary. 

I've tried lots of backpacks, but the Shimoda designs are the only ones deep enough to fit zooms the size of the 16-35 and 24-90 end up and SL/S1R bodies long dimension up ....... 

 

Two things this got me wondering about.

With the Shimoda Explore 40l, will 90-280 with SL body attached fit?  I don't see the Panasonic 70-200  in my purchase plan for quite a while.

The second curiosity would be what your experience has been on the Panasonic tele-converters with the 90-280.

That seems like something I would order right now if they work on the Leica 90-280.

Cheers.

[thighslapper]

20 minutes ago, MarkinVan said:

With the Shimoda Explore 40l, will 90-280 with SL body attached fit?  I don't see the Panasonic 70-200  in my purchase plan for quite a while.

If oriented in the long (height) axis of the core unit (they supply more than enough dividers to reconfigure as you like). It just hogs too much room and resulted in compromising the arrangement of all my other gear ....... and poor weight distribution. 

22 minutes ago, MarkinVan said:

The second curiosity would be what your experience has been on the Panasonic tele-converters with the 90-280.

NO tele-converters work with the SL 90-280 .... which was another reason for getting the 70-200. Image quality is not noticeably affected by the 2x adapter. 

I also forgot to mention I've dumped all my landscape ND and Grad filters + holders in favour of Kase Magnetics ...... with adapter rings and Magnetic Circular Polarisers permanently on all 3 zooms. The Circular ND filters just stack magnetically as required (although the Magnetic Lens caps do tend to fall off when in the backpack). Grads have gone ....... with the DR available on both the SL2 and S1R I can usually process from a single image ...... and just take the odd bracketed shot to blend if I things are iffy. 

I don't mind carrying a lot of gear .... but I hate fiddling about with things when time would be better spent looking through the viewfinder .....

[Leicaiste]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

With MindShift Backlight, you fold and connect the straps toward the front, and they are entirely out of the way as well (I need the quick switching occasionally on airports).

 

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

After using it for many years, I am not sure that I miss the butterfly system. I certainly do not miss the sticky zippers of Gura Gear 😞 (we have/had about 6 of them, and they all have/had some issues). Maybe the zipper issue has been resolved in the meantime.

Thanks. I will have to try the MindShift and the new Kiboko V2 next time I will be at B&H. 

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, Leicaiste said:

 

Thanks. I will have to try the MindShift and the new Kiboko V2 next time I will be at B&H. 

Let us know what you think about Kiboko V2.

[MarkinVan]

9 hours ago, thighslapper said:

If oriented in the long (height) axis of the core unit (they supply more than enough dividers to reconfigure as you like). It just hogs too much room and resulted in compromising the arrangement of all my other gear ....... and poor weight distribution. 

NO tele-converters work with the SL 90-280 .... which was another reason for getting the 70-200. Image quality is not noticeably affected by the 2x adapter. 

I also forgot to mention I've dumped all my landscape ND and Grad filters + holders in favour of Kase Magnetics ...... with adapter rings and Magnetic Circular Polarisers permanently on all 3 zooms. The Circular ND filters just stack magnetically as required (although the Magnetic Lens caps do tend to fall off when in the backpack). Grads have gone ....... with the DR available on both the SL2 and S1R I can usually process from a single image ...... and just take the odd bracketed shot to blend if I things are iffy. 

I don't mind carrying a lot of gear .... but I hate fiddling about with things when time would be better spent looking through the viewfinder .....

Thanks for confirming the 90-280 doesn't work with the Panasonic tele-converters.  Maybe one day someone makes one but in the meantime, I'm still loving my 90-280.

I will have to checkout the Shimoda Explore 40l bag, looks like there is a dealer in Seattle that stocks them.

I currently have the Peak Design 30L backpack & messages bags which are really only good for 1 body and 2 lens plus accessories, I have the Arca Swiss D4 GP.

Definitely will also have to look into the Kase Magnetics, I have the Formatt Hitech filters and not really thrilled by them and cursed more that once.

Your insights are appreciated and comments inspiring, thanks again.

 

[Jon Warwick]

On 12/28/2019 at 7:41 PM, Chaemono said:

My thoughts were that after Sony, Panasonic are masters of RAW file cooking. 

Hi, this is a genuine question, what do you mean by that? Is the “cooking” a good thing or not? I read this post given one option that I’m trying to figure out is whether to get an S1R + SL prime lens combo, ie, am I leaving any image quality on the table by not using an SL2 with the SL primes? From your other comments, aside from AWB differences, it seems not? Or does the “cooking” coarsen up the S1R RAW files (compared to the SL2), and this is something that it’s then too late to adjust in post?

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jon Warwick

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[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Jon Warwick:

Hi, this is a genuine question, what do you mean by that? Is the “cooking” a good thing or not? I read this post given one option that I’m trying to figure out is whether to get an S1R + SL prime lens combo, ie, am I leaving any image quality on the table by not using an SL2 with the SL primes? From your other comments, aside from AWB differences, it seems not? Or does the “cooking” coarsen up the S1R RAW files (compared to the SL2), and this is something that it’s then too late to adjust in post?

It can be helpful when it’s well done and Panasonic applies NR to S1R RAWs even at ISO 200 and below no matter what L-mount lens one uses, I suppose.  They don’t do this to the S1 files. I checked, therefore, if those looked crispier at ISO 100 than the S1R files.  They don’t because of the difference in MPx count  but also because Panasonic probably applies sharpening at the same time.

I don’t think you compromise any visible IQ when using SL lenses on the Panasonic bodies rather than on Leica bodies.  At times, the Panasonic files may even look crispier with less noise. 😂  Judging by tests others have done, M lenses are a different matter.

[Jon Warwick]

23 hours ago, Chaemono said:

It can be helpful when it’s well done and Panasonic applies NR to S1R RAWs even at ISO 200 and below no matter what L-mount lens one uses, I suppose.  They don’t do this to the S1 files. I checked, therefore, if those looked crispier at ISO 100 than the S1R files.  They don’t because of the difference in MPx count  but also because Panasonic probably applies sharpening at the same time.

I don’t think you compromise any visible IQ when using SL lenses on the Panasonic bodies rather than on Leica bodies.  At times, the Panasonic files may even look crispier with less noise. 😂  Judging by tests others have done, M lenses are a different matter.

Very interesting, thanks. Your comments may tie in with my own observations. fwiw, I’ve now spent a lot more time playing with S1R and SL2 raw files.

The one thing I’d concluded is that I’d found S1R raws looked very, very “sharp” (as in high acuity) even with sharpening down towards zero in PS. Even with the LUMIX 24-105mm lens, the S1R files simply yell out “sharp” to me.

This difference, if my eyes are to be believed, is not unimportant to me. Some people like ”sharp sharp” photos, which is great, but I personally found them harder to tame when compared to the SL2 raws, which seemed “gentler” imho. For me, with a background in large format film, I’m looking for high Resolution (ie, lots and lots of fine detail), but want that fine detail rendered in as gentle a way as possible. And the SL2, to my eyes and for whatever reason, seems to get me towards that rendering that I prefer more easily when I process the images. To each their own, others may have different views!

Edited March 2, 2020 by Jon Warwick