Leica M240 Debate

[tenezus]

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Good morning,

I have been offered to trade my Leica M240 plus €700 euros for a Leica ME (M9) plus a 35mm summicron Asph. 
 

What do you think? Is it a good deal? 
 

Thanks

[nwphil]

Maybe....but only if you really want a M9, don't have a cron 35, and need some cash in your pocket

[jankap]

No! The M240 offers more, is a newer construction, has an EVF connection, ....

[LocalHero1953]

I was delighted to get rid of my M9 and buy a M240: noisy shutter, terrible LCD, no LV (making it impossible to use non-Leica-M lenses, nor to check the RF calibration), garish colours, poor high ISO performance.

[jaapv]

I sold my M 240 and kept my M9 and MM1 when I got the CL. I think the camera is an all-time classic, warts and all, and that the M240 was made into a technological dead end - unfortunately.

I disagree vehemently   about the colours. That CCD gives an easy  basis for very subtle work, the M240 requires  more postprocessing to get a similar result in my experience.

Remember the neon reds in the first year of the M240?

[lct]

You will have the feeling to travel through time with the M9 but good deal if the lens is in clean condition. If you don't like the M9, sell it, buy another M240 and the lens will have costed you less than 2000$.

[dummilux]

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That’s a great deal. I’d take it. 

[tenezus]

Thanks for everyone replied. I like mine m240 but I think I could sell the ME and fund something else and get the lens for nearly €1000. I already have a lux fle. 

[LocalHero1953]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

I sold my M 240 and kept my M9 and MM1 when I got the CL. I think the camera is an all-time classic, warts and all, and that the M240 was made into a technological dead end - unfortunately.

I disagree vehemently   about the colours. That CCD gives an easy  basis for very subtle work, the M240 requires  more postprocessing to get a similar result in my experience.

Remember the neon reds in the first year of the M240?

The M9 is a bit of a marmite camera.
I had worse problems with the M9 colours than I ever had with the M240.
Neither my daughter nor son-in-law wear lipstick. M9 + Summilux-M 35 FLE, ISO 800. (Admittedly crappy Montmartre cafe lighting).

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Edited December 25, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[Jean-Michel]

I have both. The M9 is pretty much always paired with a 35 Cron; the M-P is paired with a 50 Cron, or a WATE, or 90 Macro-Elmar, in that order of frequency. I have LR presets for skin tones for both cameras for a couple of lighting situation.  And in any case managing colour ot grayscale with either cameras is light years ahead of doing the same in the darkroom. The screen of th 9 is of course only useful for menus and perhaps the histogram.  

[adan]

9 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Neither my daughter nor son-in-law wear lipstick. M9 + Summilux-M 35 FLE, ISO 800. (Admittedly crappy Montmartre cafe lighting).

With due respect, since I know your other work(s).

If you got that lip-color from an M9, you made a mistake somewhere, such as one or all of:

- trusting Adobe engineers to know their behind from their elbow, in writing color profiles, or

- failing to make your own dedicated indoor tungsten (yellow)-light profile, or

- setting global saturation somewhere in the stratosphere.

The following - from the first month I had an M9 - and had made my own custom profile for tungsten light (to get rid of magenta-reds created by removing yellow overall - red calibration slider: Hue +25 (yellower), Sat. -10).

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[LocalHero1953]

I appreciate your respect, @adanbut please don't rule out incompetence on my part (though I'm not in the habit of boosting saturation).

To be fair, the cafe lighting was partly to blame, but this was a common theme through my use of the M9. I think it was this set of shots that first pushed me towards making my own dual illumination lens profiles, and colour adjustment presets. They all worked to some extent, but never entirely.

The problem was also peculiar to certain people - not everyone had red-lip or pink-skin syndrome. I attributed it, without direct evidence, to physiology where blood vessels were closer to the skin surface than in other people, in combination with hot lighting, and thereby more responsive to IR.

Even now with the SL and CL I keep a 'Pink skin reduction' colour adjustment preset* in Lightroom for certain faces.

But to repeat, I found this problem to be greater with the M9 than the M240, and was one reason I switched from one to the other as soon as I could.

 

Edit: I just checked the editing details for this image: it is the current Adobe Standard profile, and otherwise 'as shot' - no adjustments. In transferring from LR Classic to LR CC my 2013 M9 custom profiles (both dual illumination and tungsten-only) were left behind. If I can work out how to reattach them I'll post it again. My general experience of Adobe Standard profiles, though, is that while they were always iffy with a new Leica model (M9, M240, SL, TL2, CL in my case), they improved as time passed till they were as good as my own custom profiles.

 

* Red Hue and Luminance both +25

Edited December 26, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[tenezus]

Thanks for the help. The Leica ME has the original sensor and has not been replaced. Should I be worried?

[lct]

Garish i don't know but reddish that's for sure. This guy was so proud of the then new M9 that he was as red as his red dot
Full size: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FwZLvCF/0/bba015f3/O/i-FwZLvCF.jpg

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[jaapv]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I appreciate your respect, @adanbut please don't rule out incompetence on my part (though I'm not in the habit of boosting saturation).

To be fair, the cafe lighting was partly to blame, but this was a common theme through my use of the M9. I think it was this set of shots that first pushed me towards making my own dual illumination lens profiles, and colour adjustment presets. They all worked to some extent, but never entirely.

The problem was also peculiar to certain people - not everyone had red-lip or pink-skin syndrome. I attributed it, without direct evidence, to physiology where blood vessels were closer to the skin surface than in other people, in combination with hot lighting, and thereby more responsive to IR.

Even now with the SL and CL I keep a 'Pink skin reduction' colour adjustment preset* in Lightroom for certain faces.

But to repeat, I found this problem to be greater with the M9 than the M240, and was one reason I switched from one to the other as soon as I could.

 

Edit: I just checked the editing details for this image: it is the current Adobe Standard profile, and otherwise 'as shot' - no adjustments. In transferring from LR Classic to LR CC my 2013 M9 custom profiles (both dual illumination and tungsten-only) were left behind. If I can work out how to reattach them I'll post it again. My general experience of Adobe Standard profiles, though, is that while they were always iffy with a new Leica model (M9, M240, SL, TL2, CL in my case), they improved as time passed till they were as good as my own custom profiles.

 

* Red Hue and Luminance both +25

The IR sensitivity of the M9 - far more than the M240- is a fact, and will impact -among many other things-  Caucasian skin. So I always use a 486 filter with this camera.

I think you hit on the explanation.

 

[LocalHero1953]

50 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The IR sensitivity of the M9 - far more than the M240- is a fact, and will impact -among many other things-  Caucasian skin. So I always use a 486 filter with this camera.

I think you hit on the explanation.

 

I did try an IR cut filter, but it was too much of a faff, because I didn't need it all the time, and I'd have needed several.

[Ko.Fe.]

I have M-E (last batch, purchased new). I'm thinking of selling whole bunch of RF gear and upgrading to M-E MKII.

The only real benefit of M9 sensor is in no noise low iso images. It is visible, sometimes. While the whole CCD vs CMOS is subjectivity. 

I not always see hugely disturbing  difference between Leica  and some of the non Leica RF lenses. On digital sensors.

I could not find shocking difference between 35 Color Skopar, Summarit-M and Jupiter-12 on M-E. 

I enjoyed more Orion-15 than Elmarit-M 28 2.8 III, which gives Mandler magic only on bw dr prints.

The only big difference I  have seen on M-E was in 50mm. Summicron IV and III have best colors. Rigid has its own rendering.

Cosina Zeiss 50 f2 was odd in terms of colors, CV 50 1.5 VM has magenta on edges if wide open. My J-3 doesn't have it.

IMO,  M-E is nothing special under bright light, if not worse. It is old camera pictures with limited DR.

It will catch IR noise in hot days.

It is great for indoors with bounced flash and in general under low light and within low iso. 

It is also quirky camera despite its simplicity. 

It is good to have anyway, but I recommend to sell Cron, add 700 plus more to get used 35 FLE. f2.8. f2.5 and f2 as max apertures are limiting on M-E, just as on film cameras.

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Ko.Fe.

[Ko.Fe.]

5 hours ago, tenezus said:

Thanks for the help. The Leica ME has the original sensor and has not been replaced. Should I be worried?

You should be not worried only if 1600 USD are included in total price. Otherwise, keep 1600 USD ready for sensor swap or at least check for how long it is still applicable as free. 

My M-E was from the last batch, from second half of 2015, purchased new in 2016 and it is corroded as soon as I started to use it. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Ko.Fe.

[Gregm61]

On 12/25/2019 at 4:29 AM, jaapv said:

I sold my M 240 and kept my M9 and MM1 when I got the CL. I think the camera is an all-time classic, warts and all, and that the M240 was made into a technological dead end

I’ve just made that CL jump, ordering a new CL, 11-23 and extra battery from B&H. 
 

Going to try the set for a few days but anticipate selling my Olympus outfit ( probably just send it to B&H and get what I can) along with several little used M lenses, and using those funds towards a 55-135 and getting the M to L adapter to utilize the 35mm f1.4 FLE. 
 

CL and the M262. When I’m through that’s what I plan to be “left with”....

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Hallo,

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[jdlaing]

The search for the holy grail continues.