KFo Posted December 18, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The other night I was shooting the closing of a local festival. Using the 90, I found some surprising asymmetrical halos on light in the scene with the lens wide open. Stopped down they are lessened but not alleviated. Is this within the normal expectation for this lens? At first I thought I'd just horribly missed focus, but on further inspection, I don't believe that to be the case. Also hand held at night although the signs and other things would seem to indicate I was pretty steady. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Wide open at f/4 Stopped down to f/5.6 or 8, I don't remember. Edited December 18, 2019 by KFo Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Wide open at f/4 Stopped down to f/5.6 or 8, I don't remember. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304534-90mm-macro-elmar-m-weird-halos/?do=findComment&comment=3875631'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 Hi KFo, Take a look here 90mm Macro-Elmar-M Weird Halos. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
farnz Posted December 18, 2019 Share #2 Posted December 18, 2019 It looks like the lens aberration 'coma' to me. Since it reduces as you stop down tends to support it because coma is more prevalent when the rays from the lens's extremities are used to form the image but stopping down means that the diaphragm excludes rays from towards the edge so coma is less obvious. I've never used this lens so I don't know if it's normal when shooting it wide open but I suspect I would've remembered it if I'd read about it on the forum so perhaps your lens would benefit from some attention. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotomas Posted December 18, 2019 Share #3 Posted December 18, 2019 This looks not normal to me. Even if it would be coma it wouldn't be so much better with only 1 f-stoped down, but no Leica-lens should have such a coma anyway. I have the old version of this lens and made an quick test with my M 240 with liveview. Here it looked fine, even wide open. Also tried if the lens is not correctly locked, but then everything get's unsharp and even then it don't show halos like this. Could some parts of the lens turn loose and get unadjusted? With what camera this appeared? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share #4 Posted December 18, 2019 This is on a M10P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted December 19, 2019 Here's a series I just shot from this afternoon to make sure I wasn't loosing my marbles... Ignore the exposure data, the f-stops are marked on each image. You can see how the image clears as the aperture is closed. Focus was on the candle holder, I let the camera handle the exposure. I am frankly shocked, I've never had a lens that exhibited this! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304534-90mm-macro-elmar-m-weird-halos/?do=findComment&comment=3875762'>More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 19, 2019 Share #6 Posted December 19, 2019 It looks like coma to me, but I've never seen so much so close to the image axis, and I can't remember seeing anything remotely similar with the Macro-Elmar-M 90. (The worst offender in this regard that I know of is the pre-asph Summilux 35.) How is the accuracy of focus? I'm thinking that there might be an issue with the collapsing mechanism, leading bits to go where only bobs are expected. If there's a problem there, you'd most likely see it with inconsistent focus across the frame or focusing at the wrong distance. Otherwise, I'm at a loss -- but I will be very curious to learn what's causing this. Hope it resolves quickly and easily! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted December 19, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 19, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seems like it might be in need of an adjustment...how sharp is it wide open? This lens should be very sharp even at f4. Like JonPB said, I would think that if perhaps the extension mechanism was not properly aligned, it might cause some issues. This is not typical of modern, slow Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share #8 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) To understand my reference point, here is the same scene shot with my XPRO2 and XF 60mm macro, a lens with a similar FOV that I'm accustomed to. Not perfect to be sure, but within reasonable expectations! The exposure data below the proofs is accurate. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 19, 2019 by KFo Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304534-90mm-macro-elmar-m-weird-halos/?do=findComment&comment=3875775'>More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share #9 Posted December 19, 2019 Right after I got the lens, maybe even the same day, I went out and took a quick series of images to see how things looked. At that time, I noted what I think of as "blooming" in the bright areas, which I now have learned is coma. At time, since I wasn't shooting lights at night I thought it wouldn't be an issue. Sharpness looked pretty good to my eye and the focus seemed to be right on comparing the rangefinder to LV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 19, 2019 Share #10 Posted December 19, 2019 I might revise my opinion on coma, which sometimes provides similarly shaped halos but which should vary by distance from the center of the image. Your halos appear about the same size across the frame. I suspect a repair is unfortunately called for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 19, 2019 Share #11 Posted December 19, 2019 The pictures in post #3 show coma in the highlights - you can see the coma shapes change around the frame so that the bright spots always point roughly towards the centre of the picture. I don't see coma in post #5 although the highlights are badly burnt out at f/4 but less so as the aperture is stopped down and the diaphragm is reduced, which is what I'd expect to see. At f/4 even the sides of the candle show overspill of light and by f/16 there's still a burnt out highlight in the well of the candle but I don't see any telltale coma shapes. The burnt out highlights have proved too much for the M10 cope with so it looks like you're getting pixel (sensel) overspill where some of the excess light from a sensel spills into the neighbouring pixel, which overfills it and overspills into its neighbour and so on. The effect appears as a 'bloom' of light. Since the series of pictures is shot at ISO 800 I would expect this level of highlight burnout and I don't see the coma problem shown in post #1. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 19, 2019 Share #12 Posted December 19, 2019 Strange thing for light to be doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 19, 2019 Share #13 Posted December 19, 2019 😇Leica Glow ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 19, 2019 Share #14 Posted December 19, 2019 Definitely not normal (I've used the 90 Macro-M a few times). I'd note that the Macro is a collapsible lens. It's possible the telescoping tube has lost alignment, tilting the glass relative to the image plane and/or "decentering" it. Or that it is not locking in the extended position evenly. Otherwise, it's possible a single element of the glass inside has come loose and is tilted, or simply out of position in some other way. At any rate, it is a form of coma, grossly exaggerated. Something in the lens is not where the lens designer intended it to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeger Posted December 19, 2019 Share #15 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Did you see anything unusual thru the glass placing flashlight at the other end? Edited December 19, 2019 by jaeger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share #16 Posted December 19, 2019 Today I messed around with the lens again... I would say this lens is “as new” as can be for a used lens. No marking or wear on the mount from on-off cameras. The body is free of dings, scratches, any wear marks whatsoever. All the screws are in good condition and tight, so if an amateur had opened this one up at some point they didn’t booger any screws. I can shake the lens vigorously and there no rattles, thumps, or clattering! Inspecting the lens with a flashlight reveals dust, but nothing that I’d loose sleep over. The extension and locks are in good condition and show no visible wear. The lens locks securely in all four positions. There is no play whatsoever when the lens is extended and locked. My plan today is to take the lens with me on my daily street shoot. It’s sunny and bright so I should have all kinds of challenging lighting (southern california sunny winter day.. I will also wait until dark and reshoot the same scene that raised this issue. Perhaps it was some form of operator error that caused this. Thanks for all your input! It’s funny that I’ve never encountered this in a lens after many years of photography. Learning something new everyday! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted December 21, 2019 Share #17 Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I do have the 90mm elmar, and does not show any rendering like that - took a a few snaps at my Christmas tree lights, and it's fine. Have not tried with street lights or a candle. Let me know if you would like me to somewhat replicate some shots with other lights. I am sure that you might have checked already, but is the rear element clean? a finger print can do wonders..... Edited December 21, 2019 by nwphil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted December 21, 2019 Share #18 Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I have seen this effect on film : had a Noct Nikkor 58/1.2 that exhibited blooming of street lights and stars when they were extremely overexposed against a pure background. I my mind this was down to the shape of the lens coma ; the Leica Noctilux retained sharp points with butterfly coma tails ; the Nikkor diffused points into glowing balls. The statistical measure would be Kurtosis : Leica +3 , Noct Nikkor -1 Is it possible the Macro lens is better corrected at close focus , so infinity focus with extremely overexposed highlights would show imperfections to a far greater degree than the light background, candle-lit table scene Edited December 21, 2019 by FrozenInTime Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 21, 2019 Share #19 Posted December 21, 2019 Unlikely culprit but worth asking: are you using a filter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 31, 2019 Share #20 Posted December 31, 2019 I just ran across this (old) review of the 90 APO-Summicron, and saw something that made me think of this thread. Scroll down the page about halfway to see some examples of rather similar fan-like large/wide coma blurs from night-time streetlights....and some commentary https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/90mm-f2-apo-asph.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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