Chaemono Posted December 13, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Alright, it's not a fair fight simply because with the SL Summicrons, and particularly with the APO 35 Summicron-SL, Leica brilliantly optimized the exponential size/performance equation in order to fully exploit the exponential performance/price equation. 😁 In other words, the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S only costs one-seventh (1/7) of the APO 35 Summicron-SL and, therefore, one may justifiably ask, is this Nikon Z lens that bad. The short answer is, wide open it is. The slightly longer answer is, it depends on whether one wants/needs a lens that is sharp in the center wide open (that's a 'yes' for me), with no color fringing in the bokeh highlights (another 'yes' for me). I haven't checked yet for CA/PF in borders of extreme dark and bright areas nor extensively for flare (I believe the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S has none, the 35 Summcron-SL a tiny bit). First, on distortion and how distortion-free the APO 35 Summicron-SL is. I have never seen an image taken with a FF lens 55 mm and wider that doesn’t need corrections for distortion applied in post (Otus 55 pictures need them, APO 50 Summicron-M ones do as well). The fact that 50 and 35 SL Summicrons don't is absolutely amazing. Hence, this is not a deficit of the Nikon Z lens here but it's still good to make it transparent. To download the RAW file of the Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S picture click on this link: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g1060865012-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=69mKAxPezxCRYIbvQzlo6vq-btYhlDDBDKF3bIl60dw= Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-QNVCnR/ Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S with integrated lens profile in LR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And now with the opcodes removed Edited December 13, 2019 by Chaemono 1 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And now with the opcodes removed ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3872596'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 13, 2019 Posted December 13, 2019 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S vs. APO 35 Summicron-SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share #2 Posted December 13, 2019 Let's show the size difference here. Both lenses are almost equal in size but the Leica lens weighs more simply because it is made of magnesium alloy, plastic for the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S, and it has 13 elements while the Nikon lens has eleven (also the Leica lens is made in Germany, the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S in China, and Chinese lenses are known to weigh less 😁). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3872601'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted December 13, 2019 Sharpness in the center wide open now and a link for the Leica RAW file is provided here as well. Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-QNVCnR/ To download the DNG file of the SL + APO 35 Summicron-SL picture click on this link: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g633525069-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=7Xa-QxecWAtpIOsoBbbNBCVymzm5UYy5XTGQCMxFV-U= Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S WB and tones tweaked to try to match Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL WB and tones tweaked to try to match Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL WB and tones tweaked to try to match ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3872609'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share #4 Posted December 13, 2019 And now the crops. Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-QNVCnR/ Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S crop from above Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL crop from above 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL crop from above ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3872612'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted December 13, 2019 And now for some color fringing in the bokeh highlights. BTW, the 1/3 faster aperture of the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S doesn't show. There is no discernible difference in the blur relative to 35 Summicron-SL wide open. Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S crop from #3 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL crop from #3 3 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL crop from #3 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3872625'>More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted December 13, 2019 Share #6 Posted December 13, 2019 Interesting. Clearly there is a tangible reason to spend 3x on the Leica gear, but the IQ delta is not so vast that which ever side one lands on isn't be completely justifiable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted December 13, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 13, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you for this comparison. I appreciate no matter what conclusion people will make out if it. 35S is one of best 35mm lens I ever used only 2nd to RX1. I do think 35cron SL is THE best 35mm lens ever created. Bokeh ball is prettier with 35cron. i like 35S is not only it balance the trade off well, it offer nice bokeh from 35mm lens. I would love to see more comparison between it and 35cron SL. I love best glass No matter what but I think most modern glasses are not lacking in sharpness area. Color correction and bokeh are two feature are as important if not more important for me. 35S did well in this regard, I want see more from 35cron. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted December 13, 2019 Share #8 Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Chaemono said: And now for some color fringing in the bokeh highlights. BTW, the 1/3 faster aperture of the Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S doesn't show. Though you might want stop down 35S a little to f2 to level the ground. 35cron has amazing sharpness I have to say. Tell me how you feel in hand for both system. Especially use AF single handed shooting. LOL I know my answer. SL2 is way more cooler camera though Too bad Z7 doesn't offer the same level of M glass support. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted December 14, 2019 Share #9 Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) Yeah you might want to shoot both at F2 to level the ground. Edited December 14, 2019 by Mr.Q Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted December 14, 2019 Share #10 Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr.Q said: Yeah you might want to shoot both at F2 to level the ground. I disagree... you need to shoot them both wide open. What this test shows is how good modern glass really is. The people on this site (including me), like that last bit of image quality of their glass. I shoot mostly SL glass now, and love the results. Most people (friends, family, social media) who view our images would never notice the difference during normal viewing. The price difference is enormous though... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted December 14, 2019 Share #11 Posted December 14, 2019 I guess if you are trying to compare the rendering wide open that makes sense. I'm interested in seeing the difference in detail and sharpness at the same aperture though. Both results look great, and I look forward to more comparisions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share #12 Posted December 14, 2019 I’ll do both, f/1.8 and f/2, for sharpness and OOF rendering. I doubt 1/3 a stop of smaller aperture will make a difference in sharpness but may make the bokeh slightly busier depending on the scene one is shooting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted December 14, 2019 Share #13 Posted December 14, 2019 I don’t expect Nikon at f2 will tip the balance either. 35cron is not only the sharpest 35mm but may be sharpest lens ever. it doesn’t change a single bit of my view on Nikon though, a great balanced design it is with fast and quiet AF. Sharpness is no longer an issue at this level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted December 14, 2019 Share #14 Posted December 14, 2019 The Leica lens is obviously better at whatever%, but does it matter for the whole picture? Those new lenses are all so good that it seems to me that they are all "good enough" 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoreserve Posted December 14, 2019 Share #15 Posted December 14, 2019 The difference regarding sharpness (#4) is clearly visible. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted December 14, 2019 Share #16 Posted December 14, 2019 Does it matter really? For me I saw a meaningful difference between prime DSLR lenses and M lenses, but now we are at at higher lever of perfection that it becomes less meaningful. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy_action Posted December 14, 2019 Share #17 Posted December 14, 2019 17 hours ago, Chaemono said: I have never seen an image taken with a FF lens 55 mm and wider that doesn’t need corrections for distortion applied in post (Otus 55 pictures need them, APO 50 Summicron-M ones do as well) That's an interesting comment! We obviously see the world differently - I can't remember the last time that I felt an image taken with a 50 exhibited distortion that warranted correction. Never done any tests myself, but Dxomark write of the Otus that "distortion while measurable is barely noticeable in real world use". Just wondering what sort of images you take where correction with the lenses you mention is necessary? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoreserve Posted December 14, 2019 Share #18 Posted December 14, 2019 vor einer Stunde schrieb J.Nordvik: Does it matter really? For me I saw a meaningful difference between prime DSLR lenses and M lenses, but now we are at at higher lever of perfection that it becomes less meaningful. Yep, for me it does matter, the difference isn‘t marginal. Btw.: comparing the SL-Summicrons with SL-Varios you get similar results. The Varios are for sure very good but not as outstanding as the Apo-Primes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted December 14, 2019 vor 4 Stunden schrieb easy_action: That's an interesting comment! We obviously see the world differently - I can't remember the last time that I felt an image taken with a 50 exhibited distortion that warranted correction. Never done any tests myself, but Dxomark write of the Otus that "distortion while measurable is barely noticeable in real world use". Just wondering what sort of images you take where correction with the lenses you mention is necessary? The LR lens profile for the Otus 55 doesn't just correct vignetting but it also stretches the picture slightly. It's clearly visible in the corners, less so in the center. With a subject in the center, this 'distortion correction' is insignificant but is still there. See here from an old test shot: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-8jCZtT/. You may choose not to apply the lens profile for the Otus 55 in LR and correct vignetting manually and this way avoid the slight loss of resolution that results from the correction. I may do more tests with a subject off center and see if without the lens profile corrections distortion is still insignificant. The interesting thing is that more and more manufacturers include the instructions for these distortion corrections in the opcodes of the RAW file and, hence, don't give users a choice anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share #20 Posted December 14, 2019 The Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S at f/2 now and with the 35 Summicron-SL a bit handicapped as the 'subject' is even more off center and slightly smaller than in the picture with the Nikon lens. As stated in the initial post, it's not a fair fight,...but fun to watch. 😁 Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-QNVCnR/ Z7 + Nikkor Z 35/1.8 S WB and tones tweaked to try to match and equal amount of sharpening and NR in LR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL WB and tones tweaked to try to match and equal amount of sharpening and NR in LR 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! SL2 + 35 Summicron-SL WB and tones tweaked to try to match and equal amount of sharpening and NR in LR ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304403-nikkor-z-3518-s-vs-apo-35-summicron-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3873112'>More sharing options...
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