wattsy Posted January 5, 2020 Share #81 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, Nowhereman said: My memory may be faulty, but I thought you had said that, at that time, you had tried the Summaron-M 1:5.6/28 only with film. ______________________Frog Leaping photobook That’s quite possibly true but, if so, I had surmised correctly. Edited January 5, 2020 by wattsy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Hi wattsy, Take a look here Film Leica vs M10-P. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Nowhereman Posted January 6, 2020 Share #82 Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 10:02 AM, andyturk said: Of Nowhereman's four images above, the two made by the M10 are much more interesting images (to my eye). Does that tip the scale one way or the other?... Andy - Thanks. I feel that the second M10 picture is particularly interesting, and here is a high-contrast B&W version. It was taken at noon and the sunlight was so strong that you needed to squint when you looked into the sun-lit area without sunglasses, as I do when using an M-viewfinder. Here is what I wrote about this image when I posted the B&W version: Moriyama Daido has said that one of the things he likes about digital is that you can decide later whether to use the color or the black and white version of a shot. Even when he was shooting film, one of his famous photographs, shot on color negative film, was published and exhibited in two versions, color and B&W, in two different books — a shot of young woman running up a narrow, rubble-filled lane. ...In this B&W version, it’s more difficult to see that the left-most part of the frame is a reflection of the subject, in a mauve-tinted acrylic mirror — the only hints of that in this, in B&W, are the darker tone and the somewhat wavy surface of the acrylic mirror. Too much ambiguity? Or maybe the ambiguity is not obvious enough? Interestingly, on my Instagram feed, the B&W version was “liked” a lot more than the color version — and was my second most popular image there. Speaking of Moriyama Daido, this is what he calls a “no finder shot”: I held the camera in front of my chest after I set the focus and shutter speed. Because the background at the right is very bright, 3-4 stops brighter than the university student, I underexposed the young woman by about ½ stop — that was sufficient not to blow the highlights. The subject is a 19 year-old university student. As I was walked past her, I turned around and spoke with her for a few minutes, but the few additional pictures I took of her then were too posed and she was smiling too much to make the images interesting: ironically, they don't have the feeling of engaging with the subject that the first one does, which of course was taken without engaging with her, but with her looking into my eyes — the lower viewpoint from the camera at chest level also help. M10 | Summaron-M 1:5.6/28 | ISO 800 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok_______________________Frog Leaping photobook Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok _______________________Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886177'>More sharing options...
andyturk Posted January 6, 2020 Share #83 Posted January 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: ...In this B&W version, it’s more difficult to see that the left-most part of the frame is a reflection of the subject, in a mauve-tinted acrylic mirror — the only hints of that in this, in B&W, are the darker tone and the somewhat wavy surface of the acrylic mirror. Surprising how different the two versions are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 6, 2020 Share #84 Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Nowhereman said: Andy - Thanks. I feel that the second M10 picture is particularly interesting, and here is a high-contrast B&W version. It was taken at noon and the sunlight was so strong that you needed to squint when you looked into the sun-lit area without sunglasses, as I do when using an M-viewfinder. Here is what I wrote about this image when I posted the B&W version: Moriyama Daido has said that one of the things he likes about digital is that you can decide later whether to use the color or the black and white version of a shot. Even when he was shooting film, one of his famous photographs, shot on color negative film, was published and exhibited in two versions, color and B&W, in two different books — a shot of young woman running up a narrow, rubble-filled lane. ...In this B&W version, it’s more difficult to see that the left-most part of the frame is a reflection of the subject, in a mauve-tinted acrylic mirror — the only hints of that in this, in B&W, are the darker tone and the somewhat wavy surface of the acrylic mirror. Too much ambiguity? Or maybe the ambiguity is not obvious enough? Interestingly, on my Instagram feed, the B&W version was “liked” a lot more than the color version — and was my second most popular image there. Speaking of Moriyama Daido, this is what he calls a “no finder shot”: I held the camera in front of my chest after I set the focus and shutter speed. Because the background at the right is very bright, 3-4 stops brighter than the university student, I underexposed the young woman by about ½ stop — that was sufficient not to blow the highlights. The subject is a 19 year-old university student. As I was walked past her, I turned around and spoke with her for a few minutes, but the few additional pictures I took of her then were too posed and she was smiling too much to make the images interesting: ironically, they don't have the feeling of engaging with the subject that the first one does, which of course was taken without engaging with her, but with her looking into my eyes — the lower viewpoint from the camera at chest level also help. M10 | Summaron-M 1:5.6/28 | ISO 800 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok_______________________Frog Leaping photobook Mitch - not finding you on Instagram using @Nowhereman Please advise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted January 6, 2020 Share #85 Posted January 6, 2020 @Steve Ricoh - It's @mitchalland: https://www.instagram.com/mitchalland/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 7, 2020 Share #86 Posted January 7, 2020 On 1/1/2020 at 9:25 PM, A miller said: I am serious when I say that the iPhone 11 Pro is pretty darn good for family snaps on the go in really low light. I really don't feel myself limited in any way in all lighting situations. Absolute worst case scenario, you can get a high quality pocket film camera like a Contax T3 which has a legendary Zeiss lens and a flash and you can choose your own aperture which opens to f2.8. Just for illustration, here are some examples of that set up in about as dark of conditions as one can get (at night time outside with hardly any light): Portra 400 pushed to 800 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! If you have one kid, it might still cut it on film. Large family.... We, as family with kids quit from film in 2007. Before 2007 we have couple of hundreds photos. After 2007 we have tens of thousands. No phones used. IPhone 11 is just as "good" as film. The reason I like M9 files and low ISO is clear details at 1:1. They are free of typical CMOS noise, while film and phones gives nothing but blotches of pixels or grain at 1:1. Not so hugely important, but I'd rather switch to M10 than doing film on family again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #87 Posted January 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, Ko.Fe. said: If you have one kid, it might still cut it on film. Large family.... We, as family with kids quit from film in 2007. Before 2007 we have couple of hundreds photos. After 2007 we have tens of thousands. No phones used. IPhone 11 is just as "good" as film. The reason I like M9 files and low ISO is clear details at 1:1. They are free of typical CMOS noise, while film and phones gives nothing but blotches of pixels or grain at 1:1. Not so hugely important, but I'd rather switch to M10 than doing film on family again. Really, I am the opposite. There is nothing I would rather view than family vacation photos shot on Portra 160 or Cinestill 50 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886497'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #88 Posted January 7, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886498'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #89 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) can your digital camera do this?? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 7, 2020 by A miller 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886500'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #90 Posted January 7, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886520'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #91 Posted January 7, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886521'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #92 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) I think you really need to love the film aesthetic to want to make the extra effort to shoot film with family. I personally love the classic look that film gives my family photos. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 7, 2020 by A miller 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886522'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #93 Posted January 7, 2020 I love the pastel colors from Portra 160 in bright sunlight... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304372-film-leica-vs-m10-p/?do=findComment&comment=3886524'>More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted January 7, 2020 Share #94 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Wow, film vs digital for family pictures as a function of how many people are in the family; and, only film can do pastel in the bright sunlight of the beach. My eyes glaze over, my mind atrophies...at moments like this, serious discussion on the LUF seems unreachable, unattainable. Funny, at moments like this I particularly miss Lars Berquist, shall we say, "the old man from the age of reason"? I thought that Adam's statement, "I am serious when I say that the iPhone 11 Pro is pretty darn good for family snaps on the go in really low light", made sense — particularly in the context of the example shots in posts #21 and #22, which showed that muddy tonality in bad light could be achieved by both digital and film and that, most likely, those shots would have come out much better had the poster shot them with a good smart phone — but now..._______________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited January 7, 2020 by Nowhereman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinch123 Posted January 7, 2020 Share #95 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Nowhereman said: Andy - Thanks. I feel that the second M10 picture is particularly interesting, and here is a high-contrast B&W version. It was taken at noon and the sunlight was so strong that you needed to squint when you looked into the sun-lit area without sunglasses, as I do when using an M-viewfinder. Here is what I wrote about this image when I posted the B&W version: Moriyama Daido has said that one of the things he likes about digital is that you can decide later whether to use the color or the black and white version of a shot. Even when he was shooting film, one of his famous photographs, shot on color negative film, was published and exhibited in two versions, color and B&W, in two different books — a shot of young woman running up a narrow, rubble-filled lane. ...In this B&W version, it’s more difficult to see that the left-most part of the frame is a reflection of the subject, in a mauve-tinted acrylic mirror — the only hints of that in this, in B&W, are the darker tone and the somewhat wavy surface of the acrylic mirror. Too much ambiguity? Or maybe the ambiguity is not obvious enough? Interestingly, on my Instagram feed, the B&W version was “liked” a lot more than the color version — and was my second most popular image there. Speaking of Moriyama Daido, this is what he calls a “no finder shot”: I held the camera in front of my chest after I set the focus and shutter speed. Because the background at the right is very bright, 3-4 stops brighter than the university student, I underexposed the young woman by about ½ stop — that was sufficient not to blow the highlights. The subject is a 19 year-old university student. As I was walked past her, I turned around and spoke with her for a few minutes, but the few additional pictures I took of her then were too posed and she was smiling too much to make the images interesting: ironically, they don't have the feeling of engaging with the subject that the first one does, which of course was taken without engaging with her, but with her looking into my eyes — the lower viewpoint from the camera at chest level also help. M10 | Summaron-M 1:5.6/28 | ISO 800 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Bangkok_______________________Frog Leaping photobook I thank the Shade of Rama VI every day for having mandated university uniforms. Chaiyo! Agree that losing the mirror tint visual clue makes for a more compelling image. Perfect timing too. I’m guessing just made eye-contact and it’s an instant before the inevitable instinctive frown or glance away — regardless of how much rapport built up chatting later. Edited January 7, 2020 by kinch123 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 7, 2020 Share #96 Posted January 7, 2020 Mitch - I am simply demonstrating how one can effortlessly achieve a beautiful film aesthetic rendition with family photos by using a film camera. If this is what one likes (and I know that it's not for everyone and some people like the sterile look), why the heck would one spend $6000+ on a camera that will make a native sterile and soul-less photo and require lots of time in front of the computer to achieve the rendering of what I can do effortlessly? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyturk Posted January 7, 2020 Share #97 Posted January 7, 2020 14 hours ago, A miller said: Mitch - I am simply demonstrating how one can effortlessly achieve a beautiful film aesthetic rendition with family photos by using a film camera. If this is what one likes (and I know that it's not for everyone and some people like the sterile look), why the heck would one spend $6000+ on a camera that will make a native sterile and soul-less photo and require lots of time in front of the computer to achieve the rendering of what I can do effortlessly? "effortlessly"? with more effort, perhaps skies and skin tones might match across images. "beautiful film aesthetic"? not a compelling argument with the photos posted. "native sterile and soul-less? could you link to some examples to support your observations? "lots of time in front of the computer"? how much time is "too much" for a photo you love? etc. etc. I'll take my answers off the air... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 7, 2020 Share #98 Posted January 7, 2020 On 12/12/2019 at 10:02 AM, jaapv said: Keep the MP - worst-case scenario, you will pass it on to your grandchildren. And get the M10, enjoy using it. In practice you'll probably be using both. Sage advice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 7, 2020 Share #99 Posted January 7, 2020 The beauty of M is it's eternal. So you might get several and play and see and then sell some or most or hoard them. There are many approaches and the financial state might require you whittle it down, but it's not like you gambled it away. SO I'd say it's really hard to get that kind of advice from strangers -- you have to try the things yourself for yourself. You got to handle them, shoot them, carry them. You can carry 3 M bodies with lenses at once in a big Hadley. I carried an S, SL2, and M-P recently. After an S with a few lenses they are all feather-light. Leica is the only system where you can enjoy cameras from a decade or more ago and pass it on. So go ahead and have fun with all of it, and pass on some. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 7, 2020 Share #100 Posted January 7, 2020 8 hours ago, A miller said: Really, I am the opposite. There is nothing I would rather view than family vacation photos shot on Portra 160 or Cinestill 50 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 8 hours ago, A miller said: 8 hours ago, A miller said: can your digital camera do this?? 8 hours ago, A miller said: Superb photos with beautiful color .... you must dev yourself it will be better Best Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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