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Film Leica vs M10-P


raj

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I  enjoy both film and digital. I tend to use digital for everyday use and film on my travels. I have just acquired another film Leica today (I really did not need it but it was such a bargain I could not resist). It is a beautiful condition Leicaflex SL2 (apart from the viewfinder needing cleaning of the internal lens but it is only two screws under the leatherette strip to demount it) and came with my favourite length of lens, a 35mm/f2.8 Elmarit-R Series 1. For my travel photography I use either an R9 or M7. More recently I have tended to use the R9 more, as I can then use my two R zoom lenses, a 28-70 Vario-Elmar-R Series 2 and an 80-200/f4 Vario Elmar-R (the final version), although with the Motor-Winder-R, the R9 is a bit of a lump. I have also found it tends to meter more accurately than the M7 without having to think about EV compensation, which is important for reversal E100 film. Today's film Leica acquisition:

Wilson

 

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When you consider how that film thread dominates the Photo forum and the rules have been relaxed about the use of non-Leica cameras, I respectfully beg to differ.

2 minutes ago, A miller said:

Sometimes I feel that Leica film photography is not proportionately represented

 

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9 minutes ago, andybarton said:

It is also clear that the two sides of the same coin (Leica Film only users vs Leica Digital only users) are never going to be reconciled.

If you don't like digital, don't use it. If you don't like film, don't use it. If you swing both ways, then use both.

But, please don't perpetuate film vs digital arguments just because you are in one camp or the other. It really is down to personal preference and opinion.

Thanks

 

Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's what someone else uses to make their photographs. It isn't any of my business. If I think that digital gives me the results on my wall that I like (and my wife likes), then why would I care what someone else prefers?

I don't like decaffeinated coffee. I prefer English Breakfast tea. What does it matter if you're a decaff person?

 

I just don't get why this is still being discussed after all these years, to be honest.

 

 

Andy - your red text is seeming to be saying that we cannot offer our opinions on this forum. So what are we supposed to do, couch every statement of opinion that we make with some kind of balanced perspective that we don't really believe in but just not to hurt any digital photographer's feelings?  

I very honestly started my posts on this thread as a half hearted and half serious jovial - even comical - statement to add a flair of amusement.  I do this a lot.  You have to take it for what it is: half serious over-the-top pro-film perspectives. 

To me, this forum is made more rich and informative and enjoyable when people have strong opinions backed by deep knowledge. 

If there is supposed to be a ban on perpetuating discussions regarding the strengths of film photography over digital - even, mind you, on a thread in which a question is raised regarding having a film only or a film+digital workflow (!) -  perhaps it should be written as a formal rule?

 

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6 minutes ago, andybarton said:

When you consider how that film thread dominates the Photo forum and the rules have been relaxed about the use of non-Leica cameras, I respectfully beg to differ.

 

...that thread is so mom and apple pie that no mods are ever needed :)  it is a role model for the rest of the forum and in my and so many others' opinions the best part about the forum.

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That's not what I am saying at all.

But you need to understand that not everyone has the same passion for film photography that you have and respect that position. 

This is why religion and politics are forbidden topics, for obvious reasons.

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14 minutes ago, A miller said:

Andy - your red text is seeming to be saying that we cannot offer our opinions on this forum. So what are we supposed to do, couch every statement of opinion that we make with some kind of balanced perspective that we don't really believe in but just not to hurt any digital photographer's feelings?  

I very honestly started my posts on this thread as a half hearted and half serious jovial - even comical - statement to add a flair of amusement.  I do this a lot.  You have to take it for what it is: half serious over-the-top pro-film perspectives. 

To me, this forum is made more rich and informative and enjoyable when people have strong opinions backed by deep knowledge. 

If there is supposed to be a ban on perpetuating discussions regarding the strengths of film photography over digital - even, mind you, on a thread in which a question is raised regarding having a film only or a film+digital workflow (!) -  perhaps it should be written as a formal rule?

 

I am reading Andy's post as pointing out that the whole film vs. digital discussion is completely futile - mainly because the "vs." does not exist. It is as productive as an argument about "I like potatoes" - "no, I like rice" ;)

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22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Not so difficult, it took me about two minutes PS, I can do better when I am not on my Macbook during a lull in my work. ;)  I can only agree with you, it is

Thanks, Adam. It was not that hard, it took me about two minutes Photoshop on my Macbook during a lull at work, I'm sure I could improve it on my home editing station ;) My point was, as I feel is yours, that one should master the technique one prefers to achieve the look one prefers, and that materials or tools are basically not of interest - at least to outsiders.

Well, I have always said that you are multi-tasking-talented :) 

I think we have found some common ground here, although I personally don't equate all tools. 

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29 minutes ago, andybarton said:

 

But you need to understand that not everyone has the same passion for film photography that you have and respect that position. 

 

Andy - I totally understand that.  Not even a question.  But passions are very good.  Threads about someone's GAS and misery wanting company are boring!!

Edited by A miller
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3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I am reading Andy's post as pointing out that the whole film vs. digital discussion is completely futile - mainly because the "vs." does not exist. It is as productive as an argument about "I like potatoes" - "no, I like rice" ;)

At some level this is fair enough, Jaap.  For the record, I like both potatoes and rice.

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Guest Nowhereman

I agree with @jaapv's post #115 that some of the recent plethora of images in this thread illustrate little expect the posters' love of the medium.

Coming back to the issues being discussed, the idea that a photo has "soul" because it's film rather than digital, which is characterized as "sterile", is not an aesthetic judgment but simply a prejudice. You could argue that the following pictures has soul, and it that it would have that whether it was film or digital.

M10 | DR Summicron 50 | ISO 400 | f/5.6 | 1/60 sec


Bangkok — The Empire of Signs
_______________________
Frog Leaping photobook

Edited by jaapv
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44 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

I  enjoy both film and digital. I tend to use digital for everyday use and film on my travels. I have just acquired another film Leica today (I really did not need it but it was such a bargain I could not resist). It is a beautiful condition Leicaflex SL2 (apart from the viewfinder needing cleaning of the internal lens but it is only two screws under the leatherette strip to demount it) and came with my favourite length of lens, a 35mm/f2.8 Elmarit-R Series 1. For my travel photography I use either an R9 or M7. More recently I have tended to use the R9 more, as I can then use my two R zoom lenses, a 28-70 Vario-Elmar-R Series 2 and an 80-200/f4 Vario Elmar-R (the final version), although with the Motor-Winder-R, the R9 is a bit of a lump. I have also found it tends to meter more accurately than the M7 without having to think about EV compensation, which is important for reversal E100 film. Today's film Leica acquisition:

Wilson

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

that's a beaut!  Needs its own thread! :)

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1 hour ago, A miller said:

Andy - your red text is seeming to be saying that we cannot offer our opinions on this forum. So what are we supposed to do, couch every statement of opinion that we make with some kind of balanced perspective that we don't really believe in but just not to hurt any digital photographer's feelings?  

I very honestly started my posts on this thread as a half hearted and half serious jovial - even comical - statement to add a flair of amusement.  I do this a lot.  You have to take it for what it is: half serious over-the-top pro-film perspectives. 

To me, this forum is made more rich and informative and enjoyable when people have strong opinions backed by deep knowledge. 

If there is supposed to be a ban on perpetuating discussions regarding the strengths of film photography over digital - even, mind you, on a thread in which a question is raised regarding having a film only or a film+digital workflow (!) -  perhaps it should be written as a formal rule?

 

Adam,

Your expressions are maybe not perceived as you meant them.  That is on you, not the reader.

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2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Please take into account that this is NOT an image thread. Only images for the  illustration of a point are permitted; that means not flooding the thread, which is about the choice between two camera models, and not an ode to either film or digital. Please post images for display in the designated threads.

Apologies, but I was merely posting examples for the film side, I use both digital and film, but I don't think digital can quite get these looks (Portra). I'll stop posting if it's a serious problem and a drag on the thread, which the mods seem to think so.

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As a 95% film person I still have to admit that without accepting computers (and a digital camera is only a computer with a lens on the front) there would be no way of promoting film on this forum. You can’t post a film picture without using digits. I don’t think the forum admin would like us to mail a paper print in. If I want to post a picture I have to scan a darkroom print, making a digital picture.

But film and digital photography are different media. Yesterday I used my 15mm Voigtlander lens on a digital body to take a series of pictures of a house renovation, much easier to provide a set of pictures to the owner than using film. Today I am back to film as it is much more satisfying to produce negatives and darkroom prints.

as to the the original question, it is difficult to compare the whole film Leica collection to one particular digital camera. Go for the third option, film and digital, then you can play a whole new game of comparing lenses on the two systems.

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50 minutes ago, gnuyork said:

Apologies, but I was merely posting examples for the film side, I use both digital and film, but I don't think digital can quite get these looks (Portra). I'll stop posting if it's a serious problem and a drag on the thread, which the mods seem to think so.

No need to apologize.  The needed context with which you posted your images was not lost on me.  Some points are just best made with an image.  Instead of criticizing, you should be praised for taking the extra time out of your day to make your point the way you did.  

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