Trading in an M10 for an SL2?

[Jeff S]

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48 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

Fair enough but to elaborate on your point earlier regarding the weight of M10 vs SL2.
M10 - 660g
SL2 with M-Adaptor L -  981g
Difference - 321g
That's the minimum weight difference to take advantage of the lightweight M lenses. Nearly 50% which is massive.
We don't want people to be confused that those 2 cameras are anywhere close in real-world weight or size.

If one chooses the SL2 in part because of its EVF focusing (say for fast M glass and/or eyesight issues), then the comparison should include the EVF for the M (70g?).  And arguably, the SL2 has a better grip than the naked M, so it’s not all about weight.  That said, I have no need or desire to put M lenses on anything but an M.  

Jeff

[Jeffry Abt]

I love using the M10. It is the 1st camera I’ve ever owned that has induced me to say “I’ll never trade it in”

But I do plan to buy the SL2 when it become available. I’ll see which one I use the most.  I truly enjoy the simplicity of M10. It could turn out that the SL has too many bells and whistles for my taste. I hope they don’t get in the way.

I understand Leica including all the bells and whistles, for it is a “Pro camera” and it must be functional and serve the purpose for many different needs. It is like Photoshop, an extremely powerful bit of software. I use a small fraction of its functionality but it allows me to easily make choices on what I ignore or use. 

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

If one chooses the SL2 in part because of its EVF focusing (say for fast M glass and/or eyesight issues), then the comparison should include the EVF for the M (70g?).  And arguably, the SL2 has a better grip than the naked M, so it’s not all about weight.  That said, I have no need or desire to put M lenses on anything but an M.  

Jeff

Well technically the LCD can be used for LV picture-taking too. In fact, for wide-angle lenses, the quickest way to focus and recompose is using the RF and LCD imo.

As for SL's better grip, you're right.  It's subjective. I personally think my SL's grip is okay..... worse than average for a SLR-shaped camera. I vastly prefer the X1D grip for larger lenses. For M lenses, I prefer the M + thumbs up.

[Simone_DF]

15 hours ago, james.liam said:

Which one works well with M glass? The Nikon Z7?

Yes. 
or you can get a Kolari A7

[ELAN]

Last week I tried an SL2 with 35mm Summilux-M FLE for a couple of hours.  Quite heavy and bulky and a very different experience than using an M.  I was quite relieved to hand back the SL2 and go back to my M.  

[250swb]

Having had the SL and been extensively frustrated by it my 'best pick' option for M lenses on a non-M body is the Z7. You may think there can't be much difference but the button ergonomics and grip are much superior with the Z7, and unlike some other alternatives you get IBIS for your M lenses. So while some features are being added to the SL2 I don't see the fundamental ergonomic package as being different enough, especially if adding on the behemoth L mount lenses at some point. The downside to the Z7 is that if you buy it as a kit with the stock 24-70mm zoom you may decide to leave your M lenses at home anyway.

None of the 'M alternatives' are genuine alternatives, it's best to consider them 'M extensions' that open up situations the M can't do easily or at all. But to see the full potential of an 'M extension' you need to look at it's native system and decide if what is available is itself within your budget, or is limited, or is complimented by many or few other independent manufacturers. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by 250swb

[albertknappmd]

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19 hours ago, lucerne said:

Maybe, 

so do we read his comments as positively “doesn’t give a damn“ ! and “couldn’t care less“.  ? That’s fine by me.

thanks.

is he channeling Rhett Butler????

😀😀😐

[albertknappmd]

seriously, you should have a compelling reason to switch. 

Both systems are superb but they serve different purposes...

Why don't you borrow a SL and use your M lenses and see????

Albert

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[bags27]

7 hours ago, ELAN said:

Last week I tried an SL2 with 35mm Summilux-M FLE for a couple of hours.  Quite heavy and bulky and a very different experience than using an M.  I was quite relieved to hand back the SL2 and go back to my M.  

As a CL and Q owner, I had exactly same experience. The SL2 seemed too heavy, and I remain torn on this.

But we all have muscle memory, get accustomed to what we have, and resist change. But when we do change, we usually adjust. There are at least a few on LUF who have bought, used, and then sold the SL for being too heavy. But I wonder really what that number is, compared to those who got used to the weight and now swear by the camera.

Edited December 9, 2019 by bags27

[bags27]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

Having had the SL and been extensively frustrated by it my 'best pick' option for M lenses on a non-M body is the Z7. 

I have tried and tried to like the Z7 (and I still shoot film with a Nikon), but, for me, its UI, while being the best of the non-Leicas, is still so far below Leica's that is is not enjoyable--for me, anyway. OTOH, see my above post on getting used to change. 😀

Edited December 9, 2019 by bags27

[Chaipaval]

Why not consider a Lumix S1R? Surprisingly similar if not in price!

[sunil]

On 12/9/2019 at 7:52 AM, albertknappmd said:

seriously, you should have a compelling reason to switch. 

Both systems are superb but they serve different purposes...

Why don't you borrow a SL and use your M lenses and see????

Albert

 

I have been an M user for nigh on 40 years now. Some years back I sold my M240 and bought an SL1 with the 24-90 zoom. Like other Leicas, it is beautifully built and a joy to handle sitting on my couch. Lugging the contraption around is a different story. I took it on a holiday to Spain and lugged it all around Madrid for a week. Swore I would never do that again. Its great value to me was auto-focus and a terrific viewfinder. But travel camera it ain't. Not to me. Sold it a year ago. However, GAS sets in every-time Leica announces a new product and I contemplated an SL2 with a prime lens. Truth is, I don't think there is anything like an M, particularly the M10 now. It is a small jewel. I can fit the M10 with a 50mm APO in a Fogg Flute bag which can easily be attached to my waist belt and I don't even feel I'm carrying anything. Both hands free. Attach a hand strap and it can be pulled out in a nano-second. It is also therapeutic for my GAS to see how many still consider the M cameras to be ideal. If its more pixels I want (not need) I will look into the Hasselblad 907X/CFV-II when they finally release it. Looks like another jewel.

[tobey bilek]

No but I might add a SL2 for very few special occasions when its features night be useful.

[Afairall]

Now that prices have dropped significantly, I just bought a SL and M9P for the price of my used M10 kit.

[albertknappmd]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:56 PM, sunil said:

I have been an M user for nigh on 40 years now. Some years back I sold my M240 and bought an SL1 with the 24-90 zoom. Like other Leicas, it is beautifully built and a joy to handle sitting on my couch. Lugging the contraption around is a different story. I took it on a holiday to Spain and lugged it all around Madrid for a week. Swore I would never do that again. Its great value to me was auto-focus and a terrific viewfinder. But travel camera it ain't. Not to me. Sold it a year ago. However, GAS sets in every-time Leica announces a new product and I contemplated an SL2 with a prime lens. Truth is, I don't think there is anything like an M, particularly the M10 now. It is a small jewel. I can fit the M10 with a 50mm APO in a Fogg Flute bag which can easily be attached to my waist belt and I don't even feel I'm carrying anything. Both hands free. Attach a hand strap and it can be pulled out in a nano-second. It is also therapeutic for my GAS to see how many still consider the M cameras to be ideal. If its more pixels I want (not need) I will look into the Hasselblad 907X/CFV-II when they finally release it. Looks like another jewel.

I agree that the M10 is a jewel but it is more limited than the SL or SL2..

But if it is too heavy, then stay with M10!!!

Agree completely!

Albert

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[rnl]

How about a Canon R with a novaflex adapter? I've mounted my M lenses on it. The camera uses focus peaking (like the EVF on the M10) to focus.

It's a pleasant camera to use

I recently purchased this camera after looking at a SL2 at a camera show.  The R is  going for about $1500 - and I don't see a $5000 premium for the Leica SL2 is worth it.

Edited December 18, 2019 by rnl

[waytoosquirrelly]

Because it's simply impossible to accurately focus the Noctilux lenses at f/0.95 and f/1.25 without an electronic viewfinder, the M10 really NEEDS an electronic viewfinder.  Would it be possible to put the M11's EVF where the M10's optical viewfinder is now, i.e. add an EVF to the M10 without losing the external appearance of the M cameras?  My objection to the SL2 is that it's big and ugly. 

[Boojay]

It would be an absolute no for me though at the moment I do have a Lumix S1 and a CL, my M10 would be the last to go.   I had the green light from my other half for anything I wanted for Christmas, including an SL2 if I wished but I don't feel the need at the moment.  I did ponder on the SL 90 or 75 but I'm happy using manual focus on both the S1 and the CL and have those focal lengths covered in M glass.  

Cannot agree with above post, I do not think the SL2 is ugly at all,  big and ugly I attribute to the Lumix bodies, however, in use I appreciate the controls layout on the S1 over the original SL which I had for a short time.   There is also the Visoflex 020 if you need it for the M10, or just use the LCD.  Personally I have no trouble using the RF even with my 90 AA.  As I have decided my Christmas treat is going to be the 135 3.4 apo, that may be a test, we'll see when it arrives.😀

 

 

 

 

 

[bags27]

13 minutes ago, Boojay said:

It would be an absolute no for me though at the moment I do have a Lumix S1 and a CL, my M10 would be the last to go.   I had the green light from my other half for anything I wanted for Christmas, including an SL2 if I wished but I don't feel the need at the moment.  I did ponder on the SL 90 or 75 but I'm happy using manual focus on both the S1 and the CL and have those focal lengths covered in M glass.  

Cannot agree with above post, I do not think the SL2 is ugly at all,  big and ugly I attribute to the Lumix bodies, however, in use I appreciate the controls layout on the S1 over the original SL which I had for a short time.   There is also the Visoflex 020 if you need it for the M10, or just use the LCD.  Personally I have no trouble using the RF even with my 90 AA.  As I have decided my Christmas treat is going to be the 135 3.4 apo, that may be a test, we'll see when it arrives.😀

 

Some great Christmas treat! If it turns out to not be easy with the M10, I bet it's great on the CL. Looking forward to more great photos of the fauna and flora!

I spent yesterday morning with the SL2 and concerns of size and weight were resolved when they kindly put a shoulder strap on it for me. It doesn't feel significantly heavier than an M. What makes it heavier are the fantastic L lenses, especially the zooms. It works like a dream with M glass. Next Christmas, Jayne? 😀

Edited December 29, 2019 by bags27

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[Boojay]

9 minutes ago, bags27 said:

Some great Christmas treat! If it turns out to not be easy with the M10, I bet it's great on the CL. Looking forward to more great photos of the fauna and flora!

I spent yesterday morning with the SL2 and concerns of size and weight were resolved when they kindly put a shoulder strap on it for me. It doesn't feel significantly heavier than an M. What makes it heavier are the fantastic L lenses, especially the zooms. It works like a dream with M glass. Next Christmas, Jayne? 😀

Haha, who knows Ken.  It remains a fact (in my mind anyway) that the best body with M glass is the M, but I am looking forward to putting the 135 on the CL if only for the extra reach, and of course the S1 for the addition of IBIS.  As you say, the weight of the SL2 (even the size) is not an issue, the M is no lightweight.  If you decide to go with the SL2 Ken, I use a Black Rapid cross body strap with the S1, attached to the tripod mount, it spreads the weight well.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Boojay