No paper manual - a Leica first

[Manicouagan1]

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Leica has included a complete paper manual wih every one of their cameras I've bought going back to my first the M5.  I am finding the user interface of the SL2 difficult to learn and going back and forth to my computer a pain.  This camera is a premium product,  why not include a few dollars worth of paper?  North Ameria only has three official languages (English French and Spanish) this can't be a big problem to prodiuce.  Any company producing professional grade software/firmware has a mechanism to keep the manuals in synch with the code.  

 

 

 

[erudolph]

Or, why not save the resources, both natural and corporate, until and unless the customer requests a manual?  Also, an electronic manual can be updated to reflect firmware upgrades, although I believe that Leica has not done this with previous manuals.

[Jeff S]

Stopped a while back, long after many other companies did the same.  But you can order one from Leica and they’ll send it to you.  I plan to do just that, still prefer the old school.

Jeff

[jaapv]

Not just the SL2. No recently introduced Leica has a paper manual, except on request. Not unreasonable. Most owners don't read the manual, and if they want to look something up a PDF is just as practical, or even more so.

[digitalfx]

I haven’t seen a printed manual in years

neither M10 or CL had Manual’s...I think it started before then. I generally read them once and forget about them. A pdf is better anyway, you can carry it on phone.

 

[jaapv]

Not just cameras. Nearly all gear, also professional, will come with a "quick-start" leaflet and Internet link to the full manual. Only cars , and that is probably because one is not always within reach of a computer with internet when on the move.

[ru2far2c]

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Wait till that stop including a charger as some other companies have done with some newer camera releases.

 

I'm for saving a few trees.

[Jeff S]

But I'll still take a paper book over an e-book any day.  

Jeff

Edited December 1, 2019 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, ru2far2c said:

Wait till that stop including a charger as some other companies have done with some newer camera releases.

 

I'm for saving a few trees.

That's a new one to me.

[jaapv]

5 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

But I'll still take a paper book over an e-book any day.  

Jeff

I must confess to having switched to Kindle.Hundreds of books are stored in boxes...My study has been reduced to just three bookcases.

[Jeff S]

Just now, jaapv said:

I must confess to having switched to Kindle.Hundreds of books are stored in boxes...My study has been reduced to just three bookcases.

I love bookcases.  But then I've been collecting first edition photo and art books since the 80's.  Plus lots of others.

Jeff

[Guest Nowhereman]

Yes, I also prefer reading printed books, particularly well-printed paperbacks. But, as I move annually between three continents, the practical thing is to have books I want to read on my iPad, except for one or two small  books that I bring with me; this time, Goethe's Faust, which will tale me a long time to read; and Jan Kott's The Eating of the Gods, (on Greek tragedy) which is only available printed — but the Greek tragedies themselves, I have on the iPad. 

As for camera manuals, it's a lot more practical to have the manuals for the M10 and Ricoh GR3 with me on my iPad and computer than to carry them to three continents.
________________________
Frog Leaping photobook

[david strachan]

I love the tactile feeling and ease of reading books.  Great for bookmarking too.

However i always have the pdf on my main computer, laptop and tablet just in case.

I rarely read the manual though as i do that thoroughly before I purchase the camera.

...

[hoppyman]

Perhaps another consideration is that functions change often with firmware updates. In theory at least the PDFs can be updated. They don’t seem to take any advantage of searchability and hyperlinks from memory.  So like dumb documents in just a printable format. I could be wrong , must go look. Another thing that has changed quite a bit is the quality and type of packaging. Once there are inner boxes with groovy pull out drawers and the rest. The package for my SL2 was about half the size of one for my SL I got three years back. I got it out to handover when I traded the SL.

 

[nicci78]

7 hours ago, ru2far2c said:

Wait till that stop including a charger as some other companies have done with some newer camera releases.

 

I'm for saving a few trees.

D-Lux 7 is sold without charger 😓
 

No printed manual since 2017. Only a quick start. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by nicci78

[HeinzX]

I have requested a printed manual too - it was sent to me on Friday - and I hope I will  receive it this week. And yes I want to have a complete printed manual because I do not allways have a notebook or a iPad with me. My oppinion is, that such a manual should be standard to come together with the camera. What I do not need in this case, that is the quick start guide. And in my oppinion it is no real argument, that some other companies are doing the same. And if a lot of people are requesting a printed manual, there will be additonal work for Leica, additional packing material and additional costs compared with adding it in the original packing of the camera. Therefore I find it not the right way, Leica is handling this.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I'm not sure that pdf's save trees.  I print mine (4 pages per A4 sheet), then ask Leica nicely for a black-bound copy.  Unfortunately Leica puts no effort into updating the manuals with firmware corrections (e.g. 3.x for the SL).  And navigating within a PDF is still sufficiently clumsy to make paper preferable for many questions.

I've gone over to buying books which are not-image-intensive on Kindle or Kindle-app when possible.  But that has not gotten us down to anything like three bookshelves.  It has only slowed the rate of growth somewhat, largely accommodated by getting rid of YA material that our YAs don't read anymore.

 

[snooper]

Over the years, the "operating manuals" of aircraft became paperless documentation, replacing tons of papers by xml files and a decent reader app. The interest is obviously cross-reference, like if you were in a topic dealing with exposure highlighting a specific mode in manual focusing, just a tap on the highlighted keyword would send you to the proper item in the focusing section. 

Unfortunately, with Leica, only the main index (pages 14 to 17) is linked. There is nowhere else in the 220 pages where you can find a proper indexation. So here the goal is just replacing paper by pdf, while xml built soft documentation can bring you much more providing you use a decent reader such as 'goodReader' on tablets..

It is not a big deal to produce indexed soft documentation out of XML, and maybe Leica will come to it one day. You might then find a great deal of difference with paper documentation. To come back to airplanes manuals, we started the full paperless experiments back in 2006 and after 10+ years nobody would seriously regret "good old times with paper doc". Of course this gives more room and paper to art and literature printing 😎

 

Edit: I've just checked again, the cross references indicating a page number (e.g "see page xxx") are functional at least in the SL2 doc. So it's a first step to indexation!

Edited December 1, 2019 by snooper

[scott kirkpatrick]

General Aviation (Cessna, Piper, Cirrus), despite moving fast on avionics, is really stuck on documentation.  Every time I fly, I must check that the tattered Pilot's Operating Handbook is in the back of one of the seats, plus something a little fresher for the avionics.  And checklists (which might be a good idea for cameras)!!  When an airplane with a professional crew encounters an emergency, it seems that one pilot spends the entire time reading through the checklists, leaving the other to fly and communicate.  At least in GA we write our own, and rewrite them to keep them fresh.

Edited December 1, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

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[jaapv]

2 hours ago, hoppyman said:

Perhaps another consideration is that functions change often with firmware updates. In theory at least the PDFs can be updated. They don’t seem to take any advantage of searchability and hyperlinks from memory.  So like dumb documents in just a printable format. I could be wrong , must go look. Another thing that has changed quite a bit is the quality and type of packaging. Once there are inner boxes with groovy pull out drawers and the rest. The package for my SL2 was about half the size of one for my SL I got three years back. I got it out to handover when I traded the SL.

 

Yes, that is my main gripe with Leica's manuals. It would be so much better if they were searchable PDFs.

The packaging must be a relatively recent change. The CL came in nice a little "cupboard"
I was wondering why I didn't see any unboxing videos of the SL2 yet. Less-than-smart marketing again. Those videos gave rather effective brand exposure on YouTube.