Tom Johnston Posted February 25, 2020 Share #41 Posted February 25, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) timely question/topic for me; i was just preparing to list my M9 today, have nice pics and text prepared for local sale...but just can't quite post the ad... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303794-does-m9-make-sense-for-an-m10-owner/?do=findComment&comment=3919354'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Hi Tom Johnston, Take a look here Does M9 make sense for an M10 owner?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
otto.f Posted February 25, 2020 Share #42 Posted February 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Tom Johnston said: but just can't quite post the ad.. Exactly, keep it. It will be more famous in 2030 than the M240, which had a - as we know now - too pretentious name: M, because the M10 deserved that name much more, but it was already taken - and not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 1, 2020 Share #43 Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) On 2/25/2020 at 2:56 AM, Tom Johnston said: timely question/topic for me; i was just preparing to list my M9 today, have nice pics and text prepared for local sale...but just can't quite post the ad... If you like your camera, you can keep your camera (that's a sign we will never see hanging in a Leica dealership). 😎 Selling/trading digital camera bodies is always a losing proposition for the seller - there's no point in practically giving away a perfectly good camera body IMHO. I had briefly considered trading my 240 Safari kit in on a M10 Monochrom but decided against it. I would lose my shirt in the process and be out a chrome 35mm Summicron ASPH. That's a bridge too far. Edited March 1, 2020 by Herr Barnack 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted March 1, 2020 Share #44 Posted March 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said: If you like your camera, you can keep your camera (that's a sign we will never see hanging in a Leica dealership). 😎 Selling/trading digital camera bodies is always a losing proposition for the seller - there's no point in practically giving away a perfectly good camera body IMHO. I had briefly considered trading my 240 Safari kit in on a M10 Monochrom but decided against it. I would lose my shirt in the process and be out a chrome 35mm Summicron ASPH. That's a bridge too far. My early black 35 Summicron ASPH is a lens I tell myself I will never sell. And I agree wholeheartedly about not giving away a perfectly good body. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted March 1, 2020 Share #45 Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Herr Barnack said: Selling/trading digital camera bodies is always a losing proposition for the seller - there's no point in practically giving away a perfectly good camera body IMHO. +1. I never understood people who "upgraded" their M9 to the 240 in the sensor change programme. It was almost an insulting proposition. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted March 3, 2020 Share #46 Posted March 3, 2020 On 3/1/2020 at 9:11 PM, ianman said: +1. I never understood people who "upgraded" their M9 to the 240 in the sensor change programme. It was almost an insulting proposition. Agreed, and it happened to me. But there was no way of knowing at the time that the M9 sensor could or would be re-designed. The M240 does represent an objective upgrade of sorts, with Live View above all. But I agree it's not and will never be the legend that the M9 has become. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael Posted April 29, 2020 Share #47 Posted April 29, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 2/20/2020 at 5:41 PM, rivi1969 said: An M9 makes sense when you want more organic and film-like images. Not to me. I'm a film shooter and the M9 images are far from what I'm getting from film. What do you mean with "more organic"? I mean we're talking about pixel, aren't we? 😜 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael Posted April 29, 2020 Share #48 Posted April 29, 2020 On 11/24/2019 at 6:54 PM, Stuart Richardson said: The M9 for sure looks different and has some distinctive color [...] The biggest difference is in the color response, which is still very good in the M10, just a bit different. I think for the most part it is more practical to just use the M10 and work a bit harder on the color. I say this as someone who had both, and loved the image quality of the M9. I still prefer the M9 images out of camera at base ISO, but the M10 is better in so many other ways. I had them all: M9, M262, M10. I did several test shots with them side-by-side (that's how you should do those tests). Seriously, in good light conditions there isn't that much of a difference. The M9 colors tend to be cooler than the M240/M262, the M10 is somewhat between its two predecessors. If you match the white balance and tint, the color difference is so subtle that you almost cannot distinguish the cameras from each other. There were several tests on the web that proved it. BUT: In mixed lighting the M9 was struggling most. Even if you shoot the same scene at the same time, the results are going to vary so much that it can be really annoying. I have evidences where image 1 is at 2200 K and -75 Tint, and image 2 is at 2600 K and -20 Tint. In artificial lighting the M9 tends to draw a white wall quite yellowish. This can be fixed in post, but it's an extra process step compared to the M10. Another drawback, at least to me, are the skin tones. There are times where the M9's skin tones are totally off. Then there are times where the skin tones are perfect, but the lips are waaaayyy to pink and saturated. On 2/20/2020 at 6:31 PM, Ko.Fe. said: I think, M9 sensor gives no noise on low ISO. But all CMOS sensors do. I do see sensor noise on my M9's base ISO images (fresh new sensor). Example at ISO 160, unedited, converted from DNG to JPG with Lightroom and Adobe Raw latest version. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 100% crop. Please also see the pronounced color reproduction and lost details of the pink flower. 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 100% crop. Please also see the pronounced color reproduction and lost details of the pink flower. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303794-does-m9-make-sense-for-an-m10-owner/?do=findComment&comment=3963014'>More sharing options...
BarberShop Posted April 30, 2020 Share #49 Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) There's a really great comparison of the M10 vs M9 vs film (Portra 800) here https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/3/20/an-inquiry-into-digital-versus-film?rq=m10 👆 I like the M9 images over the M10 because they have more character. There's more imperfection. However, in general I would still end up editing my photos from the M9 anyway just because I like my digital images to look more like film. The M9 also has several "advantages" over the M10. The small buffer, poor dynamic range and ISO performance and terrible screen mean that you're more likely to take your time with it like you would with a film camera. I've found this to be very refreshing having come from recent mirrorless cameras where the possibilities are endless. Edited April 30, 2020 by BarberShop 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted April 30, 2020 Share #50 Posted April 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, BarberShop said: There's a really great comparison of the M10 vs M9 vs film (Portra 800) here https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/3/20/an-inquiry-into-digital-versus-film?rq=m10 👆 I like the M9 images over the M10 because they have more character. There's more imperfection. However, in general I would still end up editing my photos from the M9 anyway just because I like my digital images to look more like film. The M9 also has several "advantages" over the M10. The small buffer, poor dynamic range and ISO performance and terrible screen mean that you're more likely to take your time with it like you would with a film camera. I've found this to be very refreshing having come from recent mirrorless cameras where the possibilities are endless. I missed this one. I have seen another M10/M9 comparison from same source. And decided I don't need upgrade to M10 after seeing it. On the entry you have provided I can't see clear winner between M10 and M9, while M6 scans are just awful. Film could do much better, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DandA Posted April 30, 2020 Share #51 Posted April 30, 2020 Ko.Fe., In the article (at the very end(, he explained why the film scans look subpar. He added this postscript.... "I finally have an explanation regarding the poor results from my film scan. The film I used on this blog post was damaged by X-Ray. I had forgotten about them, and have been traveling with them unprotected. This was never a problem when I used to shoot film, back in the day, since I never shot pass ISO 200" Dave (D&A) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 1, 2020 Share #52 Posted May 1, 2020 10 hours ago, BarberShop said: There's a really great comparison of the M10 vs M9 vs film (Portra 800) here https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/3/20/an-inquiry-into-digital-versus-film?rq=m10 👆 I like the M9 images over the M10 because they have more character. There's more imperfection. However, in general I would still end up editing my photos from the M9 anyway just because I like my digital images to look more like film. The M9 also has several "advantages" over the M10. The small buffer, poor dynamic range and ISO performance and terrible screen mean that you're more likely to take your time with it like you would with a film camera. I've found this to be very refreshing having come from recent mirrorless cameras where the possibilities are endless. Well, I prefer my M9 above an M10 which I owned for a year, but this comparison is not convincing me at all. The automatic white balances indoor and outdoor are going in all directions obviously caused by coincidental factors. Stating that the M9 has more character on the basis of this test is fake news to me. Just plunging in with photo’s without a word about the methodology of the comparisons, which happens also in other reviews quite systematically on his site, makes the information presented useless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted May 1, 2020 Share #53 Posted May 1, 2020 I was surprised he made the comparisons using different lenses. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 1, 2020 Share #54 Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, marcg said: I was surprised he made the comparisons using different lenses. And did not change it between bodies. Now I understand the differences in exact angle between the shots. There’s a new word for this: disinformation. Edited May 1, 2020 by otto.f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 1, 2020 Share #55 Posted May 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said: . I have seen another M10/M9 comparison from same source. And decided I don't need upgrade to M10 after seeing it. I would reconsider if I were you 😁 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2020 Share #56 Posted May 1, 2020 I wouldn't 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2020 Share #57 Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, otto.f said: Well, I prefer my M9 above an M10 which I owned for a year, but this comparison is not convincing me at all. The automatic white balances indoor and outdoor are going in all directions obviously caused by coincidental factors. Stating that the M9 has more character on the basis of this test is fake news to me. Just plunging in with photo’s without a word about the methodology of the comparisons, which happens also in other reviews quite systematically on his site, makes the information presented useless. Indeed. Even the very first sentence is complete nonsense to begin with. Whatever the merits of film vs digital, using a digital camera allows one to change far more aspects both in the camera and in processing. With film you are stuck with the film in the camera and a wet darkroom is far more limiting than Photoshop. Quote The problem with digital photography is the uniformity of rendering. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 1, 2020 Share #58 Posted May 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, jaapv said: film in the camera and a wet darkroom Plus the assumption that every film user is so perfectly happy with the unpredictability of the outcomes of color labs, which is a lot worse than 15 years ago. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2020 Share #59 Posted May 1, 2020 Not only colour labs; I've done quite a bit of home colour printing and in retrospect I would call it more nightmare than fun. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarberShop Posted May 1, 2020 Share #60 Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, otto.f said: Well, I prefer my M9 above an M10 which I owned for a year, but this comparison is not convincing me at all. The automatic white balances indoor and outdoor are going in all directions obviously caused by coincidental factors. Stating that the M9 has more character on the basis of this test is fake news to me. Just plunging in with photo’s without a word about the methodology of the comparisons, which happens also in other reviews quite systematically on his site, makes the information presented useless. You're right, it's hard to make a real judgement when he didn't tell us anything about his settings or whether or not these were SOOC or edited Raws. But for me it's a still a useful test because it shows that the M9 images can still compete with the M10, meaning that if you can get along with the M9's usability flaws then you can save a lot of money compared to the M10. But if you already have an M10 like OP does then there's no point really, unless you want those usability flaws. Can you please tell me why you personally prefer the M9 over the M10? Edited May 1, 2020 by BarberShop 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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