SL2 firmware update request

[BernardC]

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20 hours ago, sebas_ said:

I have not found anything on the net that Panasonic S or Sigma FP have the same problem

Sigma offers USB power and a dummy battery, and they list a V-Mount battery plate as a recommended accessory. As you may know, the fp has an even smaller battery than the SL/SL2. The same battery was also used in the original Leica Q, and in several Sigma and Panasonic cameras.

Part of your issue is that you are using an EOS lens through an adapter. The lens does not have AF, but the camera doesn't know how much power it will use. The EOS protocol probably doesn't disclose that, and if it does, Zeiss may have ignored that part of the specification.

I don't think that this will be fully resolved for non-L mount lenses with electronic coupling. There is no incentive for Leica to run a full suite of tests on each and every EOS and Nikon-mount lens. To put things in perspective, Sigma doesn't guarantee compatibility for most of their own-brand EOS lenses...

 

[sebas_]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb BernardC:

Sigma offers USB power and a dummy battery, and they list a V-Mount battery plate as a recommended accessory. As you may know, the fp has an even smaller battery than the SL/SL2. The same battery was also used in the original Leica Q, and in several Sigma and Panasonic cameras.

Part of your issue is that you are using an EOS lens through an adapter. The lens does not have AF, but the camera doesn't know how much power it will use. The EOS protocol probably doesn't disclose that, and if it does, Zeiss may have ignored that part of the specification.

I don't think that this will be fully resolved for non-L mount lenses with electronic coupling. There is no incentive for Leica to run a full suite of tests on each and every EOS and Nikon-mount lens. To put things in perspective, Sigma doesn't guarantee compatibility for most of their own-brand EOS lenses...

 

Yes, external power as an additional option is a very good idea for lengthen the running time on a single charge. But this should be an additional use case, not a must have to get burst mode shooting (let aside 4K capture for a moment). 
I have tested the Canon TSE 24 yesterday, same error message. So yeah, maybe there is a protocol issue between camera, adapter and/or lens. 
On the flip side years ago when Sony introduced their DSLM line, many people used EF lenses adapted to the Sony body. AF performance was a problem there, but power consumption not. 
When Leica wants to extra protect their (maybe to weak) battery, that’s okay. But please let me use the camera normally until the battery has 20-30% charge left. Right now it stops capturing burst or 4K when the camera is at 90% charge, that is simply too conservative. 

[Leon_B.]

Am 19.6.2020 um 16:14 schrieb sebas_:

Battery problem still there.... Sadly! Sigma MC 21 + Zeiss Milvus ZE (EF) lenses. Battery is too low for 4k or burst. Battery is charged about 90%. This is starting to drive me mad. 

Hi,

did you try the update for the Sigma MC21?

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/download/lenses/firmware/

It should solve the problem...

[sebas_]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Leon_B.:

Hi,

did you try the update for the Sigma MC21?

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/download/lenses/firmware/

It should solve the problem...

Thanks for the input. I’ve already updated the MC21, but sadly the issue persists.  

[BernardC]

35 minutes ago, sebas_ said:

On the flip side years ago when Sony introduced their DSLM line, many people used EF lenses adapted to the Sony body. AF performance was a problem there, but power consumption not.

Power consumption was a huge issue with those Sony mirrorless cameras. I remember that wedding shooters couldn't rely on them to last through a whole ceremony, they constantly had to juggle batteries. Apparently later models have bigger batteries, but most serious wedding video shooters have switched to dedicated video cameras, from Sony and other brands.

[sebas_]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb BernardC:

Power consumption was a huge issue with those Sony mirrorless cameras. I remember that wedding shooters couldn't rely on them to last through a whole ceremony, they constantly had to juggle batteries. Apparently later models have bigger batteries, but most serious wedding video shooters have switched to dedicated video cameras, from Sony and other brands.

Yes, but they haven’t had to plug in external power to be able to use all features of the camera. I have no problem to change batteries. Albeit as the SL2 is a recent camera, it should simply work in 2020. As now Sony does and the Panasonic S1 series with adapted lenses. 
Panasonic was very wise to opt for a beefy battery. Sadly Leica stayed with a weak one. Would be wise to ump up capacity, like Hasselblad has done with their High Capacity ones, same form factor, but more juice. 
The battery problem also occurs with burst shooting stills, as video is constantly  taken as an excuse. 
Regarding dedicated video cameras, they have their use cases for sure, but DSLMs have theirs for video too! The Leica SL2 has a better codec than the C100 for example. The S1H is Netflix approved and the Canon R5 is going to obliterate many of the so-called dedicate video cameras. The line between photography and motion is getting thinner and thinner, and so do the capture devices.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by sebas_

[BernardC]

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13 minutes ago, sebas_ said:

Yes, but they haven’t had to plug in external power to be able to use all features of the camera.

They had to use external power so their camera would not shut-down in the middle of a wedding! That is what Leica was trying to avoid. Arguably they were too conservative, but they also provided options for those who need more power (USB, battery grip).

15 minutes ago, sebas_ said:

Sadly Leica stayed with a weak one.

I thought Leica might switch to the S battery, but that would have made the camera much bigger. Mind you, the regular battery is quite good for stills (with Leica lenses). The main problem is with adapted EOS lenses. They have already improved performance with Sigma and Panasonic L-Mount lenses, and will continue to do so.

 

20 minutes ago, sebas_ said:

Regarding dedicated video cameras, they have their use cases for sure, but DSLMs have theirs for video too!

They certainly do, especially for smaller sets, tighter spaces (car interiors), "B-cam", "crash cams",  gimbal, etc. I doubt that many shows use them as A-cameras. That doesn't mean that they don't offer equivalent image quality.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Do you really expect this to be solved in firmware?  Leica puts in error messages to stop you from shooting when there is high battery drain and a low battery charge.  Maybe they are more conservative -- you can even get the error message with Leica SL primes but at a lower battery level.  I suspect that there was a range of electrical characteristics allowed in the L-mount spec that hadn't been fully understood.  So Panasonic solves the problem with a bigger battery and a bigger camera, and when it hits the edge, it stops, losing a shot or a sequence. 

Incidentally, the power cost of multi-shot and continuous high frame rate shooting probably just as high as 4K video.  

[sebas_]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

Do you really expect this to be solved in firmware?  Leica puts in error messages to stop you from shooting when there is high battery drain and a low battery charge.  Maybe they are more conservative -- you can even get the error message with Leica SL primes but at a lower battery level.  I suspect that there was a range of electrical characteristics allowed in the L-mount spec that hadn't been fully understood.  So Panasonic solves the problem with a bigger battery and a bigger camera, and when it hits the edge, it stops, losing a shot or a sequence. 

Incidentally, the power cost of multi-shot and continuous high frame rate shooting probably just as high as 4K video.  

Yes, I do expect that this can be solved in firmware. The warning is okay, when the battery level is really too low! What I am complaining is that the error pops up, when the battery is about 90-95% capacity, and that makes simply no sense. 

[panoreserve]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

Do you really expect this to be solved in firmware?  Leica puts in error messages to stop you from shooting when there is high battery drain and a low battery charge.  Maybe they are more conservative -- you can even get the error message with Leica SL primes but at a lower battery level.  I suspect that there was a range of electrical characteristics allowed in the L-mount spec that hadn't been fully understood.  So Panasonic solves the problem with a bigger battery and a bigger camera, and when it hits the edge, it stops, losing a shot or a sequence. 

Incidentally, the power cost of multi-shot and continuous high frame rate shooting probably just as high as 4K video.  

There would be only one real option for LEICA: umping up capacity, maintaining same form factor.

But -as I know- unfortunately that‘s highly unlikely (for various reasons)...

Edited June 22, 2020 by panoreserve

[sebas_]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb panoreserve:

There would be only one real option for LEICA: umping up capacity, maintaining same form factor.

But unfortunately that‘s highly unlikely...

Yes, that should have been done with the introduction of the SL2. Higher MP sensor, IBIS, better video specs, multishot => all needs more juice. 1860 mAh is not much. 
Hasselblad has done this move with their High Capacity Batteries, which now have 3400 mAh! 
That would be really a welcoming move from Leica!

Edited June 22, 2020 by sebas_

[panoreserve]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb sebas_:

Yes, that should have been done with the introduction of the SL2. Higher MP sensor, IBIS, better video specs, multishot => all needs more juice. 1860 mAh is not much. 
Hasselblad has done this move with their High Capacity Batteries, which now have 3400 mAh! 
That would be really a welcoming move from Leica!

Exactly! 

But, as I said above,  it‘s highly unlikely.

[sebas_]

Leica lenses are focused by wire, and don’t have hard stops. So not good at all for pulling focus manually. Additionally I have a 50mm makro lens, a 18mm and a TSE 24mm, which are not available as Leica native. 
I do have native SL lenses as well (App 35 &75). Different lenses for different purposes. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, sebas_ said:

Yes, that should have been done with the introduction of the SL2. Higher MP sensor, IBIS, better video specs, multishot => all needs more juice. 1860 mAh is not much. 
Hasselblad has done this move with their High Capacity Batteries, which now have 3400 mAh! 
That would be really a welcoming move from Leica!

Hasselblad went from 3200 to 3400. A hardly noticeable increase. And in the real world the SL2 has more shooting capacity than the X1D, regardless of battery size. Bigger sensor and all that...

Have you tried the battery grip?

Gordon

Edited June 22, 2020 by FlashGordonPhotography

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Hasselblad went from 3200 to 3400. A hardly noticeable increase. And in the real world the SL2 has more shooting capacity than the X1D, regardless of battery size. Bigger sensor and all that...

Have you tried the battery grip?

Gordon

The battery grip is what Leica raccomand for this. 

 but the size make it hard to mount to tripods , cages and L mount brackets.

and then there is the cost. I that case the 30$ USB-C drive it a better choice ..

To me this is a defect and should at least be changed to when the batteries reach 40% or so. not when it is full.

[The206]

So happy to see them get the multi-shot feature. Should have come straight out of the box, since it was advertised as such but hey its here and it works great. Albeit with a supremely dumb pop up warning that makes my blood boil, you try and recompose your shot and it tells you the camera is shaking, no shit sherlock I AM SETTING UP MY SHOT. I just wonder sometimes if these Leica engineers even use these cameras. It took all of 2 seconds to realize this was a stupid popup message that blocks the entire screen and prevents you from focusing, yah think that might be an issue??

Also why can't we have LOG in 8bit for 4k 60fps??? All of the colour profiles are complete garbage. You literally have no other camera line in your quiver to compete with so just give us 8bit LOG at 60fps, this should be a no brainer. The card speeds are plenty fast enough and the current 4k 60fps colour profile isn't usable. Let's step into 2020 and start talking with people who shoot things other than contrasty street photos and put the camera in the hands of film professionals cause I promise you all we want it LOG, everything else yah might as well shoot with your iphone, which by the way gives you 4k 60fps with LOG on Filmic Pro app. Please you have a great camera here, just take it to the finish line man, you are doubled over with only a few feet to go.

[sillbeers15]

7 hours ago, Photoworks said:

The battery grip is what Leica raccomand for this. 

 but the size make it hard to mount to tripods , cages and L mount brackets.

and then there is the cost. I that case the 30$ USB-C drive it a better choice ..

To me this is a defect and should at least be changed to when the batteries reach 40% or so. not when it is full.

No. That is not true. I have the grip permanently mounted on my SL2 with the Gizo tripod quick released mounted (also to attach the Peak Design strap quick release catch). Mounting camera + grip onto tripod is no difference that mounting camera onto tripod. Besides, I get the convenience of vertical trigger release and an additional battery to ensure that I do not run out of battery on a full day shoot. I still carry an additional spare battery but not that I ever needed it.

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, The206 said:

Should have come straight out of the box, since it was advertised as such

The initial press release made it clear that this feature was coming in a future firmware update. It's inconvenient, but all manufacturers do this. The alternative would have been to hold-off on releasing the camera for 6 extra months. Nikon took over a year to deliver their HDMI-RAW update.

9 hours ago, The206 said:

why can't we have LOG in 8bit for 4k 60fps?

Log and 8-bit don't mix well. I know that Sony offers it, but they've been stuck at 8-bit for a long time, and it's mostly useful for proxy files.

[Photoworks]

10 hours ago, The206 said:

Also why can't we have LOG in 8bit for 4k 60fps??? All of the colour profiles are complete garbage. You literally have no other camera line in your quiver to compete with so just give us 8bit LOG at 60fps, this should be a no brainer. The card speeds are plenty fast enough and the current 4k 60fps colour profile isn't usable. Let's step into 2020 and start talking with people who shoot things other than contrasty street photos and put the camera in the hands of film professionals cause I promise you all we want it LOG, everything else yah might as well shoot with your iphone, which by the way gives you 4k 60fps with LOG on Filmic Pro app. Please you have a great camera here, just take it to the finish line man, you are doubled over with only a few feet to go.

the is a reason why most FF cameras don't have 4K 60fps. Processor speed and heat. iPhone is small sensor.

Leica expressed no interest in having 8Bit LOG do to quality concern. I would like to see a compressed C4K, but that is probably adding more work on the processor.

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[Capnord]

My request : add "Sensor Format" to FN button or (better) Status Screen. This format change is very useful for wildlife photographers, especially bird photographers (like me).

Edited June 25, 2020 by Capnord