SL2 and GPS tagging

[scott kirkpatrick]

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

I'm Android 6.0.1 on a LG phone

Downloaded and installed Fotos 2.0

Tests on CL as well as SL1

Able to use it as remote control only for pictures; video mode asks for some Leica club connection that doesn't resolve.

It happened to loose connection between phone and camera being not aware why.

Using Android 7 on a Moto G5 (pretty cheap phone, pretty old Android) I checked with my M10-D.  It took me 6 tries to connect, had to delete the camera and recapture the bar code, but it worked -- showed pictures on the chip and let me take a picture remotely.  I previously got pretty solid results with SL.  Haven't get SL2 yet, which is where the function finally starts to get interesting.

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[Exodies]

6 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Can lightroom geotag with input from a good hikers' GPS, like the Garmin 60?  There is no question about those working in the Far North or other outbacks.

Have your Garmin GPS make a track log, Lightroom can read it and tag the photographs. A small gps will run for over eight hours on one battery; you don’t need to load a map in it. Other solutions are too inconvenient - phone battery can’t cope with it, camera internal gps’s take too long to find the satellites.

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Exodies said:

Have your Garmin GPS make a track log, Lightroom can read it and tag the photographs. A small gps will run for over eight hours on one battery; you don’t need to load a map in it. Other solutions are too inconvenient - phone battery can’t cope with it, camera internal gps’s take too long to find the satellites.

Latest phone and GPS tracking software do not use that much battery, though it may vary by actual situation. Garmin GPS-s are great, but I dislike having to remember to charge and pick it up as well, while my phone is always ready.

[Exodies]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

Latest phone and GPS tracking software do not use that much battery, though it may vary by actual situation. Garmin GPS-s are great, but I dislike having to remember to charge and pick it up as well, while my phone is always ready.

Ok, thanks. I will go back and look at the phone again.

[Bernd B.]

I use the SL2 (had the SL before) with iPhone X and iPad Pro 2018 (both latest firmware) and the photo-app provided by Leica. Yes, Leica promised the photo-app would provide GPS-data when the smartphone is connected to the camera. But it does not. I mailed to Leica, complaining about this. Their answer/advice: Go and connect the iPhone and the SL2 via the app, then take the photo via the app (not directly from the camera) and you will get the GPS-data. I tried it - and failed. I do until today not get any GPS-data via Leica's (updated) photo-app. This is not an app, this is a disgrace. As a workaround I now use an outdoor-app which lets me export the gpx-data to my Onedrive-account. From there I import the gpx-data into Lightroom. From there I can provide my photos with the GPS-Data. Problem there: Lightroom would add all these data automatically from the gpx-data but due to legal restrictions it seems Lightroom can't do it right now ("tagging photos automatically" is gray) - i have to do it manually photo per photo.

Oh, how I miss the GPS of the Leica SL ...

[rfunnell]

I agree it's a very poor effort and the GPS implementation to date is vapourware.

If it's not able to be implemented they should be up-front and not misleading regarding this.

 

[Bernd B.]

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I just this moment found out how to gps-tagg automatically all photos via Lightroom. But I do hope Leica will offer a working app asap. 

[SrMi]

On 11/25/2019 at 6:15 AM, Exodies said:

Have your Garmin GPS make a track log, Lightroom can read it and tag the photographs. A small gps will run for over eight hours on one battery; you don’t need to load a map in it. Other solutions are too inconvenient - phone battery can’t cope with it, camera internal gps’s take too long to find the satellites.

I use tagging with phone via BTLE on several cameras. Never had any issues with phone battery (not using Wi-Fi or BT, but BTLE). I used to cary Garmin GPS handhelds and watches with me to collect location data. I found it too cumbersome: check that it is charged, check that it is turned on, check that the time on the cameras matches the GPS time. The built-in GPS or phone GPS (via BTLE) is for me the most convenient way of tagging photos.

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, rfunnell said:

I agree it's a very poor effort and the GPS implementation to date is vapourware.

If it's not able to be implemented they should be up-front and not misleading regarding this.

 

Leica stated that GPS functionality is not implemented yet (the wifi version does not really count). They also said that it will be coming in the first quarter 2020.

[douglas ball]

I have used the GPS on my SL on two occasions where it really proved to be useful.This was in Patagonia, in Chile and in Morocco and the Sahara. It worked beautifully. I doubt if there would have been any cell service in either location. Luckily I kept my SL and it will travel with my S1R as a backup. This makes a great combination IMO.

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, douglas ball said:

I have used the GPS on my SL on two occasions where it really proved to be useful.This was in Patagonia, in Chile and in Morocco and the Sahara. It worked beautifully. I doubt if there would have been any cell service in either location. Luckily I kept my SL and it will travel with my S1R as a backup. This makes a great combination IMO.

With most phones you do not need cell service to collect GPS data.

[rfunnell]

I also had the Leica Q2 from launch and GPS tagging was promised there but nothing yet so don't get your hopes up now we are almost one year on.

They also had the same Wifi bluetooth arrangement working only for a few minutes within your wifi area on the Q2 (BTLE).

Love my new SL2.     but disappointed regarding the implementation and delay of this promised feature.

Edited January 6, 2020 by rfunnell

[hesyversen]

This is sadly a delbreaker for me. Is there no physical GPS module to put in the hotshoe?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I have messed around with the BTLE/GPS combination on my Sl2.  I think it is a great idea, makes connection much simpler (but no faster), but one side or another of the BTLE connection keeps going to sleep and never waking.and I can't tell where and when Fotos is getting its LOC information from my phone or iPad., because it is almost random.  Accuracies are off by 100 m, while the phone is accurate to 10 m or better on Google  or Apple maps at the same time.  Panasonic does this much better. Leica is clearly not putting the first team on this challenge.

[Fang]

I have just decided to stay with my SL and not get the SL2 because of the lack of GPS tagging.  I travelled to the remote places in SIberia with the nomads Reindeer Herders and to the Eagle Hunters in the Altai Mountains of Mongolia and my SL was great in tagging the location.  I cannot imagine travelling with a camera without GPS tagging since I do review my photos years later and I don't have to worry about trying to recall the location.   I don't like the idea of depending on another device for GPS tagging in my photos.   I don't even use any  handphone apps to view my photos.

[hotshew]

"I don't like the idea of depending on another device for GPS tagging in my photos."

Agreed. As a landscape shooter, GPS tagging is a must-have.

For all the the marginally useful the features manufacturers are adding to cameras these days, the trend away from integrated GPS tagging is unfortunate. Smartphone pairing adds complexity and is unreliable.

I was really happy to learn the SL included GPS tagging when I first onboarded to the system last year, thinking, "Great! Leica gets it!", only to then be let down to learn the SL2 does not. Two steps forward, one step back.

 

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Edited August 5, 2020 by hotshew

[beewee]

Coming from the M8.2 and M10, I’ve been watching the SL system mature. The summicron primes are very tempting but the current SL2 geotagging situation is keeping me from getting an SL2. I’ve been using the M10 w/ visoflex for GPS and it works well enough. It can take some time to get a GPS solution but if I’m outside, it’ll work after some time. I get that the iPhone GNSS receiver is great and it would be nice to leverage all that tech from your phone, especially as it allows you to get a decent position indoors using WiFi positioning but this BLE situation is a letdown. I seriously hope Leica sorts out the Geotagging feature as I can’t imagine shooting with an SL2 and not having geotagging - at least not while I have an M10 with Visoflex.

In some ways, I feel it was a bit foolish for Leica to be binding several of their current generation products to the whims of a company like Apple in that a feature like geotagging is completely dependent on Apple’s willingness to open up specific APIs for location output. If for some reason Apple decides on a whim to disable a critical API, the SL2, Q2 and any other camera that depend on the FOTOs app for geotagging would lose such a capability. For a company that prides itself on making timeless products that withstand the test of time, this not in character of Leica.

Having worked in both the BLE space for consumer electronics and also in GNSS and navigation, neither paths are easy but I wish Leica would choose to own its destiny rather than let Apple decide its fate for such key features. I get part of the reason that Leica didn’t want to have the GNSS receiver on the body was because the antenna bump wasn’t very appealing but there are many other ways to integrate a GNSS antenna. What they need are smarter antenna designers. For example, the Apple Watch has near transparent metallic film under the display glass that act as the GNSS antenna. Garmin watches uses the outer bezel as an RF element to the GNSS antenna. Leica with some R&D money could have done something novel like putting a GNSS antenna in the glass of the top OLED display or around the hot shoe. I really wish the SL3 will bring back integrated geotagging or preferably have something integrated but also leverage the FOTOS app for indoor positioning.

Edited August 5, 2020 by beewee

[Fang]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:35 PM, nicci78 said:

Just forget the whole Fotos crapware.

Leica is not a software company. The app is made by a third party developer. And they are not really good at that. 
 

Add the fact that WiFi and Bluetooth chips inside Leica cameras are subpar against cheap smartphones one. 
 

So forget the app connexion and any stupid suscription. Just buy an SD card adapter to Lightning or to USB-C and pay 55€ directly to adobe for Lightroom CC 1TB. It is way easier, faster and more reliable.

That also means that the SL2 is a GPS/WiFi/BT less camera.

Well it is not a good excuse for a camera market as a prime professional camera and with a premium price of one.

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[nicci78]

No need for app. Sony and Canon just show the way with their latest A7S III and R5/R6 and FTP wireless transfer. 

[hotshew]

"R5/R6 and FTP wireless transfer"

The R5 is a beast of a camera and sure to become my goto camera for everything non-landscape. If the SL2 had an A/F system even 70% as good as the R5 then I'd feel otherwise. (The R5 A/F is outstanding, even by Sony A7/A9 series standards.) I love the wireless FTP xfer on the R5 w/ the WFT grip. It's too slow for RAWs, but perfectly usable for small JPEGs. Or w/ Ethernet cable, then suitable for RAW + JPEG. Given my limited familiarity with the brand, I just don't see Leica being willing to or able to compete with the Japanese makers on tech. In a way, it's part of the appeal of the brand. I.e., slow down and enjoy the art of photography. I still prefer the images out of the SL2 and the portability / craftsmanship of the M10 to the R5 (so far anyway, as it's only been a little over a week).

Back to GPS topic, had Leica kept the integrated GPS function on the SL2 then it would had been close enough to the perfect camera that I probably wouldn't have bothered with the R5. GPS is really that important to me as a landscape shooter, and phone pairing sucks as a solution even if 100% reliable (which it is not for any of the manufacturers -- not even close). But the lack of GPS function in conjunction with other shortcomings (best-in-class A/F, CO/LR supported tethering, weaker ecosystem, and high cost) was enough that I felt SL2 could not be my main camera. (The straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.) Now, instead, the money I would have otherwise spent on more Leica glass goes to Canon. I'm on the fence if I'll keep both the R5 and the SL2, but I know I'm not giving up the R5 (or the M10s).

Edited August 10, 2020 by hotshew