Would you now buy an SL for $3500 or an SL2 for $6000?

[Donzo98]

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I would not buy an SL at all...

The Panasonic S1 is better in every way... except wide M glass capability. Better EVF, IBIS, HIGH ISO performance, AF...

You can get a MINT USED S1 for under 2K as compared to the 3K for a used SL.

I have the S1... and no rush to get the SL2 at this point.

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

The Panasonic S1 is better in every way... except wide M glass capability. Better EVF, IBIS, HIGH ISO performance, AF...

 

I what ways are EVF and IBIS better in your opinion?

Jeff

[Donzo98]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

I what ways are EVF and IBIS better in your opinion?

Jeff

I'm comparing to SL... not SL2.

EVF: Higher resolution, better in bright sun

IBIS... SL doesn't have  it

[SonomaBear]

I bought the SL after the SL2 announcement. No regrets at all!  I now carry it with all my M glass, my Q (instead of buying a 1.4/28M) and one AF Sigma lens.  I have become a real fan of the SL simplicity with the four buttons and four User Profiles (with names!).  The SL2 would be anther interface to learn.

For my landscape work out in the wilds of Northern California Pacific shores, I really use the GPS every day.  I also have a Canon GPS unit on my Canon body.  BTW: GPS from a cellphone fails miserably and unexpectedly when you are away from cell coverage.  I now capture images with full GPS info in places hard to find.  And I can return to those spots months later!  SL2 can not do that with cellphone GPS.

My M glass works so much better on the SL than on the Canon mirrorless.  The CL is tempting as a backup body!

I also stayed with my Q since I believe 24 megs is perfect.

[andyturk]

$3500 seems like a high price for the first model SL in today's market (and $6k doesn't include tax here in the US). I just bought one in great condition last week for $2650 as a complement to my M10. I already have a bunch of M glass, and being able to use the EVF *and* a flash remote at the same time is useful.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Donzo98 said:

I'm comparing to SL... not SL2.

Yup, missed that.

Jeff

[Donzo98]

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57 minutes ago, andyturk said:

$3500 seems like a high price for the first model SL in today's market (and $6k doesn't include tax here in the US). I just bought one in great condition last week for $2650 as a complement to my M10. I already have a bunch of M glass, and being able to use the EVF *and* a flash remote at the same time is useful.

Yup... much more reasonable. Great deal for sure. Enjoy it.

[Agent M10]

2 hours ago, andyturk said:

$3500 seems like a high price for the first model SL in today's market (and $6k doesn't include tax here in the US). I just bought one in great condition last week for $2650 as a complement to my M10. I already have a bunch of M glass, and being able to use the EVF *and* a flash remote at the same time is useful.

The SL, no question. Buy mine for $3500.

[Raid Amin]

There are excellent comments in this thread, and a lot of useful information is synthesized to make the choice between the cameras easier once you identify what your needs are and what your budget is.

 

Thank you all.

 

 

[sillbeers15]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:03 PM, sillbeers15 said:

I will do an extensive review of the AF tracking for myself. I do not believe Chris from DP Review knows the camera better than I do after using the SL for 4 years. My SL almost only shot with native SL lenses as I only very occasionally bring on my M59Noctilux and M21lux and use them on my SL. I am a believer that M lenses are best on M bodies (M10). I do shoot birds in flight, fighter jets over air shows and F1 night race with my 90-280 handheld. If I can get good shots on SL with 50-60% focus sharp hit rate from my SL, I would expect the SL2 to do better unless there is no AF development over the past four years by Leica Engineers.

I shot on the demo SLs for some 30mins and am surprised to find them tracking worse than SL. Something is not adding up. 

I’ll use my own camera bought by my own money to do AF trials.

My review and AF performance evidence was posted in ‘SL2AF Post#76’.

[Archiver]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:43 PM, thighslapper said:

I think unless you have used a camera with these features (like the S1R, which I have used for the last 8 months) you do not realise just how much they extend the usability and flexibility of the SL. My old SL was not touched after I got an S1R and the SL holds no attraction at all for me now. There are also some useful features and ergonomics that the SL2 lacks over the S1R so I anticipate the SL2 may in fact end up as a secondary rather than primary body ......😕

I'm doing the usual gear-dance of 'do I want this or that' which I always do when new gear is announced. Last weekend, I tried the SL2 and liked the handling a lot, moreso than the very chunky and angular SL. But the Panasonic S1 feels even better in the hand because of the contoured grip, and if I was going to spend the AUD $5000 on a secondhand SL, I'd probably spend that on a Panasonic S1H which gives me much desired video features and quality, along with the stills capabilities of the Panasonic S1.

I must admit that there's an emotional attraction to being able to use a proper Leica for work, though. At the moment, I use my Panasonic GH4 for video and my M9 for a lot of sports action and documentary work, but if I could roll them together into a SL or SL2, and be able to say to myself, 'I shoot all my work with Leica', I'd get an immature but very distinct thrill.

[michali]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:23 PM, SonomaBear said:

I bought the SL after the SL2 announcement. No regrets at all!  I now carry it with all my M glass, my Q (instead of buying a 1.4/28M) and one AF Sigma lens.  I have become a real fan of the SL simplicity with the four buttons and four User Profiles (with names!).  The SL2 would be anther interface to learn.

For my landscape work out in the wilds of Northern California Pacific shores, I really use the GPS every day.  I also have a Canon GPS unit on my Canon body.  BTW: GPS from a cellphone fails miserably and unexpectedly when you are away from cell coverage.  I now capture images with full GPS info in places hard to find.  And I can return to those spots months later!  SL2 can not do that with cellphone GPS.

My M glass works so much better on the SL than on the Canon mirrorless.  The CL is tempting as a backup body!

I also stayed with my Q since I believe 24 megs is perfect.

Couldn't agree more about the simplicity of the SL!

For once I'm not tempted by a new camera, the SL2. I bought an S1R and sold it after 4 months, went back to my SL. I got really irritated with the myriad of settings, buttons and options, which at the end of the day don't make you a better photographer or deliver more outstanding images. The AF implementation for one, drove me totally nuts! I'm much happier using my SL again and its "limited" options. I bought a CL for back up and am happy with this combination; I still have my M10 for when I want to slow things down a little.

Speaking purely from a personal perspective, IMO many of these features -many of which are superfluous- actually get in the way of your photography and it all becomes about what the camera can do as opposed to what the photographer can do. 

Let's be perfectly honest, and I'm going to be burnt alive at the stake for such heresy, but when one looks at all the hype around the SL2 and the images taken with it, the hard truth is that they could have been taken with any digital camera.  Does one really need all these features to take an image?

[Archiver]

18 minutes ago, michali said:

Let's be perfectly honest, and I'm going to be burnt alive at the stake for such heresy, but when one looks at all the hype around the SL2 and the images taken with it, the hard truth is that they could have been taken with any digital camera.  Does one really need all these features to take an image?

At the moment, the SL2 is the only full frame camera with the ability to shoot 46mp stills and C4K 60p video at 400mbps. The Panasonic S1H has better video specs, but not the same stills capabilities. The Pana S1R has the same stills resolution, but not the same level of video functions. The only other cameras in that resolution bracket are the Sony A7R IV, Nikon Z7, Fuji GFX and Hasselblad X1D, and I don't think any of those have the same constellation of features as the SL2. You don't need those features to take an image, but depending on your application and circumstances, certain features might make things easier and more enjoyable.

Case in point: I have a Canon 5D Mark II and Leica M9. I use the M9 way more because it is much smaller and lighter, and the lenses are tiny. The M9 lets me take images that I simply wouldn't because I don't like lugging around the 5D II, even though it has nominally higher resolution. Then there's that famous press photographer who uses a large format camera and tripod at presidential events and the Olympics. You can shoot like that, but do you really want to?

[michali]

15 minutes ago, Archiver said:

At the moment, the SL2 is the only full frame camera with the ability to shoot 46mp stills and C4K 60p video at 400mbps. The Panasonic S1H has better video specs, but not the same stills capabilities. The Pana S1R has the same stills resolution, but not the same level of video functions. The only other cameras in that resolution bracket are the Sony A7R IV, Nikon Z7, Fuji GFX and Hasselblad X1D, and I don't think any of those have the same constellation of features as the SL2. You don't need those features to take an image, but depending on your application and circumstances, certain features might make things easier and more enjoyable.

Case in point: I have a Canon 5D Mark II and Leica M9. I use the M9 way more because it is much smaller and lighter, and the lenses are tiny. The M9 lets me take images that I simply wouldn't because I don't like lugging around the 5D II, even though it has nominally higher resolution. Then there's that famous press photographer who uses a large format camera and tripod at presidential events and the Olympics. You can shoot like that, but do you really want to?

You make valid points. Agree, it's all based on personal views, choice and applications; I have absolutely no interest in video, which is why I went from the M9 to the M10 bypassing whatever came in between. Bottom line, each to their own.

[sillbeers15]

I have been a satisfied user of the SL for 4 years.

In the 4 years, the introduction of the SL zooms and primes amazed me on the optical performance I benchmark against the M and R lenses I've owned.

As time passed, I built up my SL lenses with the three zooms and the SL75 prime. My SL became my 'Go to' or 'Workhorse' camera for many and any type of photographic application. My believe is to fully optimize the camera and its system. The AF function is a must for me and only occasionally do I attach my M50Noctilux and M21Lux onto my SL. My M10 and other M lenses took a step back and became my soul camera as I still love to use it but misses the convenience of the SL.

Before the arrival of my SL2, I took the pain to sell the SL, resisted to buy the S1R. For a start, I was a skeptical about the SL2's 47.3 MPx sensor performance and all the YouTuber's negative remarks on the SL2's AF Tracking performance. I do not wish to chase after the best-in-class AF tracking camera (else I would have purchased it) and neither do I just wanted a high resolution camera (else I would have gotten a medium format camera) that is great for landscape application on a tripod and in a studio. I still wanted a full frame camera with the best-in-class optics and provides me the flexibility of stills to action photography. After trying out the camera on AF tracking on Birds-in-flight application and gotten to love the dynamic range and noise control the camera offers on my own trials, I am certain it is the right camera for me. I certainly look forward enjoy the SL2 for another 4 years or longer.

So if as the topic goes would you prefer to spend $3500 or $6000. My answer is that I have spend $2500 for another four more years of happy usage.

Btw .....One cannot measure by quantity on the finer things in life

[nicci78]

With Black Friday the S1R is incredibly cheap. Only half the price of SL2 at 2900€

And S1 + 24-105 is only 2600€ cheaper than used SL  

Actually for 5500€ you can get S1 + S1R + 24-105 macro. 
Or for 6000€ you get S1 + 24-105 macro + 70-200 + 1.4/50 

It does not really make any sense to buy used SL for more than S1 with lens or S1R body only. 

[tom0511]

I would say it depends...

lets say you can afford either option... why not buy the option which gives you the most satisfaction eventhough it might cost more?

lets say 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

With Black Friday the S1R is incredibly cheap. Only half the price of SL2 at 2900€

And S1 + 24-105 is only 2600€ cheaper than used SL  

Actually for 5500€ you can get S1 + S1R + 24-105 macro. 
Or for 6000€ you get S1 + 24-105 macro + 70-200 + 1.4/50 

It does not really make any sense to buy used SL for more than S1 with lens or S1R body only. 

 

IMO user interface of Pana and Leica is so different that price-function is not the only decision factor. A good price doesnt help if the user interface doesnt fit you.

I say this without judging wich UI is better. For some Pana might work better, for other (incudeing myself) Leica UI works better.

Regarding SL vs SL2...my opinion is, if you can afford it the IBIS and resolution of the SL2 are nice to have. If you dont see much value in ibis and dont want/need the higher resolution than the SL is an excellent camera as well.

[Mr.Q]

2 hours ago, Artin said:

for 20,000.00 dollars you can buy a Toyota Camry why Pay 110,000 for a Mercedes S65 when you can get 5 Toyota Camry,s  and 3 Panasonic S1rs 

You Buy A LEICA SL2 Because you want one and because you can,, Its a Premium Brand and it costs a Premium Price 

Except Mercedes doesn't buy the entire drivetrain, brakes and suspension from Toyota. And a S65 isn't a souped up Camry like the SL2 vs S1R.

[Raid Amin]

There is always the option to get back to RF and get an M10.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

Except Mercedes doesn't buy the entire drivetrain, brakes and suspension from Toyota. And a S65 isn't a souped up Camry like the SL2 vs S1R.

Finer things in life are not measured by quantity.