Looking for my first R lens for my CL

[nicci78]

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You are maybe right, more rendering difference. I did not make side by side photos. Just that I am seeing some defaults in the R lenses that did not happen on the other TL or M (which I know by heart, because I own them for 2 years) 

60R is easier for manual focus. But having to use an adaptor for 1:1 is a no go for me. I hated the Macro-Adapter-M so much, that 2 years ago, I was so happy with Macro-TL 60 convenience. 

Elmarit-R 135mm is not as good as my former APO-TL 55-135mm. CA is subtle in all honesty, but I am spoiled by APO. 

 

So in the end I did not fall in love with the results. Except with Vario-Elmar 4/35-70. But at f/4 is is a little bit of softness. Something that did not exists with TL zooms

Guess that I am too soiled by TL lenses. So I can only be impressed by very very excellent R lenses. Something that I haven't tested yet. Keep looking

[nicci78]

But one thing, that is right about the R lenses, is their size. 

They are bigger, and they are better than M to use with the CL. Larger diameter makes focusing easier. Rear aperture ring is easier to reach, and did not change their location with the lens length. 

I love their shorter focusing distance. 0.7m limit with the M ones are so disappointing. 

Somehow their size is in more in line with TL lenses one. The best cue, is that R lenses are almost sharing the same filter size than TL lenses. E55 & E60 mostly vs E52 & E60. M lenses are much smaller with E39 & E46 as their primary filter size.

One last point, R lenses are so clever : build in telescoping hood, internal zooming and focusing, rotating slim tripod collar, etc... How all these nice things disappear with TL and SL lenses ? Why ? 

Just to sum they are a pleasure to use. So I will continue my search of the best first R lens of me. 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by nicci78

[Musotographer]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:19 PM, lct said:

My only concern is bulk on the CL but otherwise it is a very good zoom indeed. Just make sure the reversible hood and its hood cap are in the package as they may be more or less difficult to find alone.

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I've had the 35-70/4 zoom for eighteen months and I had no clue that the hood is reversible. Thank you!

[nicci78]

After many tests, I will settle with APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/100 + APO-Extender 2x + Elpro 1:2-1:1

This can give me another macro - telephoto lens. On one side a 2.8/150mm equivalent with f/4 depth of field + a 4/300mm eq. with f/8 DoF

It is one of the lens that give me the image quality that I am used to with TL and modern M lenses. I am not used to close down the aperture to get better IQ anymore. And this lens will stay excellent with SL2 too, if I buy it one day. 

I can see the small amount of CA and softness wide open with Summicron-R 50, Summicron-R 90 and Elmarit-R 135. 

 

After trying the APO-Telyt-180, I cannot stand the 2.7m mfd. It is crazy long. Paired with 2x extender, it will be too long being a 6.8/540 eq. with f/10 DoF

 

I do not like the softness of Summilux-R 80. Really not compatible with my style. 

 

I will received everything next week. I will tell you what I think about this setup. Thanks again for your advices. 

 

[mmradman]

4 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

After many tests, I will settle with APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/100 + APO-Extender 2x + Elpro 1:2-1:1

This can give me another macro - telephoto lens. On one side a 2.8/150mm equivalent with f/4 depth of field + a 4/300mm eq. with f/8 DoF

It is one of the lens that give me the image quality that I am used to with TL and modern M lenses. I am not used to close down the aperture to get better IQ anymore. And this lens will stay excellent with SL2 too, if I buy it one day. 

I can see the small amount of CA and softness wide open with Summicron-R 50, Summicron-R 90 and Elmarit-R 135. 

 

After trying the APO-Telyt-180, I cannot stand the 2.7m mfd. It is crazy long. Paired with 2x extender, it will be too long being a 6.8/540 eq. with f/10 DoF

 

I do not like the softness of Summilux-R 80. Really not compatible with my style. 

 

I will received everything next week. I will tell you what I think about this setup. Thanks again for your advices. 

 

If you want ultimate 180mm R lens it is difficult to beat APO Elmarit, minimum focus distance is 1.5m and unlike Telyt which is optimised for infinity (originally developed for USN and opposition ships are never at close distance) APO Elmarit has consistent performance across the entire focus range.

Second ultimate R 180mm is APO Summicron, heavy and rare.

There are two versions of APO Elmarit 180, original only works with APO 2x TC, later one also with APO 1.4x TC.

[nicci78]

Thanks for the info.  But they are rather big, expensive and hard to get. 

Maybe in a second time. I just want to start with a first one ☺️

[nicci78]

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About my long lens quest. I gave up the R lenses road. The best long one are too rare/expensive. Without OIS, AF and warranty  

So from now I will look for either Lumix S Pro 70-200mm f/2.8 or APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm f/2.8-4

The Panasonic one is 1.57kg and give me :

- CL : 105-300mm f/2.8 without loss of IQ

+ TC 1.4x : 150-420mm f/4 with loss of IQ

+ TC 2x : 210-600mm f/5.6 with loss of IQ 

The Leica one is 1.71kg and give me :

- CL : 135-420mm f/2.8-4 without loss of IQ

 

The Lumix S Pro seems to be the most reasonable one. But the 90-280 will be the most practical one. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by nicci78

[jaapv]

You are right about long R lenses, nowadays they are expensive to buy and hard to sell... However, the 280/4.0 APO can still be argued to be the best lens ever built in its focal length, the 105-280 is still less than half the price of the 90-280 L at comparable IQ, the modular APO-Telyt system has never been bettered, in fact, is unique,  etc.

And the APO-extenders give far less loss of IQ than the Panasonic offering.

[nicci78]

I understand that. But I decided against them for 3 reasons. 
- I do not have any R lens at all. Only the R-Adapter-M, which found itself quite lonely these days. 😅

- I won’t buy the SL2. Somehow with its IBIS. I think that long R lenses will make more sense. Stabilised viewing for more precise manual focusing is quite desirable. 

- CL offers better IQ than SL2 in APS-C mode. So why bother with big SL2 ? If I will crop the image anyway ? Optically stabilised native L-mount are more logical in this case. 
 

If I can find a nice used SL 90-280. I will buy it instead of the Lumix S Pro. Otherwise I think that both are nice solution for long reach. 

[ropo54]

9 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

 CL offers better IQ than SL2 in APS-C mode. 

 

I am curious as to why you feel this way.

Which TL lenses have you tried on the CL and SL2? Thanks, Rob

[bags27]

1 hour ago, ropo54 said:

I am curious as to why you feel this way.

Which TL lenses have you tried on the CL and SL2? Thanks, Rob

Rob- Phil probably means that the CL photos have 24 mps, while in crop mode the SL2 produces photos of "only" (!) 20 mps.

I shot a lot of photos last week with both the CL and SL2 using the TL 11-23. I preferred the actual IQ of those shot with the SL2. Of course, I knew what I was looking at and probably trying to justify buying the SL2, but certainly I saw nothing in those photos to discourage me. And Jono Slack has used the SL2 with the TL 55-135 (I didn't bring mine with me) and praised the combination.

[d_w_wolves]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

I understand that. But I decided against them for 3 reasons. 
- I do not have any R lens at all. Only the R-Adapter-M, which found itself quite lonely these days. 😅

- I won’t buy the SL2. Somehow with its IBIS. I think that long R lenses will make more sense. Stabilised viewing for more precise manual focusing is quite desirable. 

- CL offers better IQ than SL2 in APS-C mode. So why bother with big SL2 ? If I will crop the image anyway ? Optically stabilised native L-mount are more logical in this case. 
 

If I can find a nice used SL 90-280. I will buy it instead of the Lumix S Pro. Otherwise I think that both are nice solution for long reach. 

Hi,
I agree with you; i had the whole  year 2018 the SL 601 and swapped to CL, because of heavy weight of the SL, body and lenses. No way it's a fine camera. But after one year  with my new CL, I experienced (IMHO) I have nearly the same results out of the CL. So I believe a very important impact to get your images is, independent which brand you use, the person behind the camera crerating the results.
Happy season and a very good new year

Edited December 31, 2019 by d_w_wolves
edit

[nicci78]

Quest is over. I settled with a nice APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm + APO-Extender-R 

It is quite heavy. But okay with CL + handgrip + thumb rest. 
 

It is crazy good, I am loving it. 
Having a 2.8/150mm + 5.6/300mm macro lens is awesome 😎 

I love doing 300mm macro shot. Being APO, long distance shot is excellent too. 
By the way, manual focusing it with the CL is easy and accurate. No need for IBIS. 
 

R lenses are a pleasure to use. Easier to focus than M lenses, due to larger barrel and longer throw. 
 

I think that I will sell my last two remaining TL lenses : 35 & 60 macro. 

And add to my lenses portfolio : 

- Elmarit-R 2.8/28mm as street photo lens.  Not as good than M 2.8/28 asph  but closer focusing distance and I love its look.

- Summicron-R 2/50mm as moderate portrait lens. Almost as good as M version, but way cheaper. 
 

I will get AF 28/35/50mm with the Q2. And MF 42/75/150/300 with the CL. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by nicci78

[nicci78]

Just two photos of my first R lens :

APO-Elmarit-R 100mm + APO-Extender-R 2x

Just look at how many adapters are stacking up. And how many times Leica is written, just in case I forgot which brand I am using. 😉

I kept the tripod foot mounted at all time. Such a hassle to remove. But it proves very handy to enhanced the handling. I Like it. 

This set up is twice the weight of my previous macro set with APO-Elmarit-TL 60mm. 1767g vs 864g.

However I got now a macro lens of 300mm f/5.6 with 1:1 magnification at 45cm vs macro 90mm f/2.8 with 1:1 at 16cm distance. 

By the way R 100 x2 is superb at very long distance. Without the APO-Extender-R the R 100 is very nice and easy to use as portrait lens. 

 

I will also gave up all TL and M lenses for my CL. R lenses are ergonomically better suited for mirrorless manual focusing. 

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Edited February 11, 2020 by nicci78

[ruskkyle]

Very nice!!

[jaapv]

You'd get the same size and quality with the 80-200  4.0.And fewer adapters.

[nicci78]

Of course I tried the cheaper 80-200 too. 😌 But i did not buy it for those reasons :

• IQ is very nice, but APO-R 100 is still better.
• APO-R 100 + APO-Extender-R 2x is still 2.5cm shorter and 40g lighter 😅 ok not that much smaller. But still
• However alone the APO-R 100 is 6cm shorter and 260g lighter. That is quite a difference. 
• 80-200 1.1m focusing distance is too limiting for me. I really love that 300mm equivalent macro lens, providing 1:1 at 45cm. 
• R zooms work better for auto ISO with R-adapter-L, a ring that I did not have. With my R-Adapter-M, it reports as 0mm and drives my CL auto ISO crazy. 
• f/4 only. APO-R 100 is f/2.8 alone, but f/5.6 with extender, which is fine to me, when I need the reach. In macro mode f/5.6 is not a problem, because I have to stop down anyway. 
• I don't like zoom. I am happy to crop instead. 

After 4.5 years of Q then Q2. I am perfectly confortable to crop my photos. I consider that my CL provides me 24MP APS-C size image + 14.5MP m4/3 size image. 

For example here with APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8 I got :

• 150mm f/4.2 dof eq. in 3:2 ratio with 24.0MP 
• 200mm f/5.6 dof eq. in 4:3 ratio with 14.5MP

Add in APO-Extender-R 2x it became 200mm f/5.6 :

• 300mm f/8.4 dof eq. in 3:2 ratio with 24.0MP
• 400mm f/11  dof eq. in 4:3 ratio with 14.5MP

So did I really need a 120-300mm f/6 dof eq. non macro zoom lens ? 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by nicci78

[jaapv]

 4/3rd is 20 MP nowadays.

[nicci78]

I know but Olympus and Panasonic are still happy to sell 16MP cameras : E-M10 III ; GX800 & GX80

So I think that a crop mode with m4/3 sensor size retaining 14.5MP is more than fair game. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[nicci78]

Got my second R lens for my CL : Summicron-R 2/50mm ROM 

Nice lens. I found R lenses really easier to focus with CL than M ones. The longer focus throw and the wider barrel make the trick. 

I also love the 50cm close focus ability. I always loathed the 70cm focus limit of Ms.

Only issue with APS-C. Even though we are throwing away the worst part (outer third of the image circle). We are magnifying chromatic aberrations. They will far worst than full frame. 

APO-R 100 is APO and therefore no discernible CA. So not a problem at all with CL. But R 2/50 is not, so CA can be quite annoying at time when used wide open. Of course Lightroom can hopefully take care of it easily. 

 

TL 35 is way better of course. Colour rendition are very different between R and TL/Q lenses. You can mix and match TL and Q photos. But R photos taken with R lenses will stand different. But I quite like these difference. They add more character.