What does IGEMO mean?

[Scott A.]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I’m considering an M3 and it notes IGEMO in the description. What does that mean?

[Matlock]

6 hours ago, Scott A. said:

I’m considering an M3 and it notes IGEMO in the description. What does that mean?

That was Leica's model code before the 5 digit numerical code was introduced. The numerical code for a d/w M3 is 10 150.

[a.noctilux]

M3 without lens is designed IGEMO

with one lens another naming as seen here in this Wiki link, some samples ...

IMARO = IGEMO + ELMAR-M (Elmar (III) f= 5 cm 1:3.5)

ISUMO = IGEMO + SOOIC-M (F = 5 cm 1:2 Summicron II)

ISUMO-N = IGEMO + SOOIC-M (F = 5 cm 1:2 Summicron II)-DR near focusing range

ISUMO-S = IGEMO + SOOIC-M (F = 5 cm 1:2 Summicron II)-Rigid

ISAIO = IGEMO + SOOIA-M (F = 5 cm 1:1.5 Summarit)

description of how M3 works ...

[wlaidlaw]

Was there a Telex alphabetic order code for the S/S M3, like my 1966 one or had they gone numerical by the time the S/S model came out? 

Wilson. 

[Matlock]

47 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

Was there a Telex alphabetic order code for the S/S M3, like my 1966 one or had they gone numerical by the time the S/S model came out? 

Wilson. 

I am no expert but I believe the M3 (body only) was IGEMO/10150 in both double and single stroke. Someone else may know more.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The WIKI at the top of this page just uses IGEMO as its only letter description in its listing of M3 designations. No differentiation is made between Double Stroke & Single Stroke versions.

The Single Stroke version began consistent production in 1958.

The change over from 5 letter designations to 5 number designations For Leitz cameras, etc, took place about 1960. This means that there were about 2 years of production of Single Stroke versions when the number code was not yet implemented.

1960 was also around the same time that Leitz began engraving the last 2 digits of the focal length of lenses, to the actual 1/10th of a millimeter, on lens mounts. Without the decimal place.

Meaning that the "60" that you see on the focusing mount of a 135mm, F4, Tele-Elmar means that that individual lens's actual focal length to the 1/10th of a millimeter is 136.0mm

Many Leitz designations in many things Leitz vary in implementation & may have some degree of inconsistency in their utilization. It would appear that Leitz did not take future Historians or/& Collectors into account all that much when manufacturing various models & making changes. They may have preferred to focus more on ingenuity, precision, usability, ergonometrics & the like. In these areas they have been consistent.

By the way, the WIKI at the top of this & every other page on this Forum is also sometimes "Imprecise" and "inconsistent".

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited September 16, 2019 by Michael Geschlecht

[luigi bertolotti]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:31 PM, wlaidlaw said:

Was there a Telex alphabetic order code for the S/S M3, like my 1966 one or had they gone numerical by the time the S/S model came out? 

Wilson. 

you mean 1956 of course…   : anyway, IGEMO for body only (still times of "telex-only codes" : btw, many dealers' catalogs of the era do ignore the body only item and list only the various 50mm-equipped codes.

(btw , my S/S item is 1957... for age-related reasons, I'd prefer if it was of 1956... )

[wlaidlaw]

Luigi, 

No my M3 is one of the last ones made in 1966. That is one reason I bought it, as I also have one of the first M4's made, bought on release day in 1967 and with serial number 1175047, the 47th production M4, so I have one of the last and one of the first. 

Wilson

[luigi bertolotti]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

Luigi, 

No my M3 is one of the last ones made in 1966. That is one reason I bought it, as I also have one of the first M4's made, bought on release day in 1967 and with serial number 1175047, the 47th production M4, so I have one of the last and one of the first. 

Wilson

.. me stupid and confused…  … you wrote S/S and I thought D/S .. and even quoted mine '57 item as S/S, whilst is D/S... adding further confusion…

[a.noctilux]

Luigi, S/S or D/S M3 can vary over time depending on the owner/user.

So many originally D/S converted to S/S that I think D/S may become scarse over time.

As we know that M3 (some of them) with D/S were broken and converted to S/S when repaired.

 

As side note, I prefer using D/S M3 with that so smooth winding.

Anecdotic ...now with my later Ms since M4 to M-A of nowaday, I tend to wind-on with two or more strokes, when I don't use Leicavit M 😉

[luigi bertolotti]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

 

Anecdotic ...now with my later Ms since M4 to M-A of nowaday, I tend to wind-on with two or more strokes, when I don't use Leicavit M 😉

Funny… … me too, with M4, used to act with two strokes… and not for nostalgy of M3 DS… simply, liked to do like this...

[Guest]

On 9/17/2019 at 9:35 AM, Michael Geschlecht said:

The change over from 5 letter designations to 5 number designations For Leitz cameras, etc, took place about 1960.

Does anyone know when exactly Leitz started using numerical order codes? It must have been before 1960 because the pdf file linked below from November 1, 1955 already includes numerical codes (and the old telegram codes as well). The IGEMO/10150 combination is included.

00981.pdf (pacificrimcamera.com)

[wlaidlaw]

I much prefer the letter codes. I can easily remember ORAKO and OKARO for the rangefinder filters and the delightfully named NOOKY for a close up attachment for a SUMMAR and loads of others, but I cannot recall a single number code.

Wilson

[Pyrogallol]

I was always good at remembering numbers, 12585, 12575, 12504 etc.

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 2/4/2024 at 10:39 PM, Studienkamera said:

Does anyone know when exactly Leitz started using numerical order codes? It must have been before 1960 because the pdf file linked below from November 1, 1955 already includes numerical codes (and the old telegram codes as well). The IGEMO/10150 combination is included.

00981.pdf (pacificrimcamera.com)

Hello Studienkamera,

My 1960 date was an approximate date, as I previously wrote.

This was also the approximate date when Leitz began engraving actual focal lengths measured to 1/10ths of a millimeter on lenses. 

In Jim Lager's Leica - Illustrated guide III, he has a photo of a bayonet mount 11113 black 50mm f 1.4 Summilux 1688518 which he dates to 1959.

And a bayonet mount 11114 chrome 50mm f 1.4 Summilux 1641148 that he writes was "possibly" from 1958.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited February 7, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht

[Guest]

Thanks, Michael, but I can't see how references to 1958 and 1959 help at this stage when we already know that the numerical order codes were used as early as 1955. As previously said, I am looking for an exact date ("about 1960" is hardly exact and certainly does not include 1955). 

[willeica]

3 hours ago, Studienkamera said:

Thanks, Michael, but I can't see how references to 1958 and 1959 help at this stage when we already know that the numerical order codes were used as early as 1955. As previously said, I am looking for an exact date ("about 1960" is hardly exact and certainly does not include 1955). 

This is something of a 'needle in a haystack' request. Leitz/Leica may have used numbers internally before introducing its customers to the concept. Looking at Laney's book you will see that some earlier items with a code word also acquired a number in the 1950se.g. VALOO/16620. On a quick look, I have a mini catalogue called 'Das  Leica System' in German from 1953 which uses code words, but no numbers. However, I have an English version of that called 'The Leica System' from 1958, which includes M models which has  `'Cat. No.' after the code word  e.g TUVOO 12,005 . I don't have time at the moment to go through all of the material which I have, but it would be safe to infer that the numbering system was introduced in the 1950s around the same time as the M system and that some of the earlier LTM system items also acquired numbers. I will try to find time later to see what the earliest reference to catalogue numbers might be. The LSI document archive, which is available to members, should be useful in that regard. I suspect that finding an 'exact date ' might not be possible without access to actual factory records rather than simply using catalogues.

William 

[Pyrogallol]

I have a Hove reprint of a 1955/58 catalogue and that only has the lettered “telegraphic” codes.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited February 7, 2024 by Pyrogallol

[willeica]

15 hours ago, willeica said:

This is something of a 'needle in a haystack' request. Leitz/Leica may have used numbers internally before introducing its customers to the concept. Looking at Laney's book you will see that some earlier items with a code word also acquired a number in the 1950se.g. VALOO/16620. On a quick look, I have a mini catalogue called 'Das  Leica System' in German from 1953 which uses code words, but no numbers. However, I have an English version of that called 'The Leica System' from 1958, which includes M models which has  `'Cat. No.' after the code word  e.g TUVOO 12,005 . I don't have time at the moment to go through all of the material which I have, but it would be safe to infer that the numbering system was introduced in the 1950s around the same time as the M system and that some of the earlier LTM system items also acquired numbers. I will try to find time later to see what the earliest reference to catalogue numbers might be. The LSI document archive, which is available to members, should be useful in that regard. I suspect that finding an 'exact date ' might not be possible without access to actual factory records rather than simply using catalogues.

William 

Some downloads here from between 1953 and 1958 and there is no sign of the number codes, but I do have a brochure in English from 1958 which has them alongside the familiar names. I will post a scanned page from that tomorrow. By the 1960s, the brochures and catalogues had the numeric code. None of this gives us any idea as to when exactly this started.

p17233coll15_73.pdfp17233coll15_75.pdfp17233coll16_37.pdfp17233coll16_53.pdf

Definitely they were in use by the late 1950s, but that does not mean they were not used earlier. This also fits with what Jim Lager said. I suppose I could ask him about this. 

William 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, willeica said:

 

Definitely they were in use by the late 1950s, but that does not mean they were not used earlier. This also fits with what Jim Lager said. I suppose I could ask him about this. 

Thanks a lot, William! The document I posted under #12 in this thread is dated November 1, 1955. This is an extract from a dealer notebook (probably published by Leitz N.Y.). Therefore, I think your earlier guess (that the numerical codes were first used internally before they were introduced to customers) could well be true.

Another hypothesis is that Leitz New York adopted the new order numbers before Leitz Wetzlar. But this is pure speculation.

It would be great to hear from Jim Lager about this, of course.