FlashGordonPhotography Posted September 10, 2019 Share #41  Posted September 10, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, if true another confirmation I did the right thing buying the S1R. I won't speak for others but I think this change to the back of the camera is an awful decision. I get that a company might move to a consistent look but Leica are moving the wrong way. The four button layout is superb in use. The *M* layout is far less intuitive, impossible to use without removing the camera from the eye and less flexible. If anything the next M and CL should get the SL four buttons not the other way around. They did the same thing when they eliminated USB in camera charging form the CL (is in the TL), which EVERYBODY started doing straight after they dumped it, and dumped the fabulous TL menus in the CL for the dull, less usable M menus. They took the live view level out of the M10. And now another step backward by ditching the best button layout on the market. Maybe Leica do want to go broke. If we're lucky they'll change the battery just to finish it off...... (sarcasm alert..). Front buttons don't work. Hard to reach and hard to use. How many people use the one on the front of the SL? I really hope this is just a concept or a mock up. But it probably isn't. HUGELY disappointed if it's real. The only advantage the SL had was usability over the S1. And they've just thrown that away. I'm sorry but the designer has to be quite daft to think this is an improvement on the SL. Gordon 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 Hi FlashGordonPhotography, Take a look here "Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tailwagger Posted September 10, 2019 Share #42  Posted September 10, 2019 4 hours ago, michali said: It wouldn't make sense for Leica to "re-invent the wheel" (in what is already proving to be a crowded market), when they could piggyback on the Panasonic Lumix.... Remember the Leica Digilux 2 (I still have mine) & the Lumix DMC-LC1? Two identical cameras, one Leica and one Panasonic which was $300- cheaper than the Leica version. LeicDigilux 2  Which is still the case with the Digiluxes. While it might make sense for Leica from a manufacturing POV, the real question is does it make sense for its customer base, new or existing? Sure, I'll pay an extra $3-500 bucks for a simplified design. I might even pay the % equivalent of up charge, say 15-25%. But, I'll be damned if I pay $6 grand or more for a camera that Pano sells for $3. At the outset of the Leica Alliance, I wrote somewhere on these pages that perhaps it signaled they saw themselves as transitioning to an optics first company. If these rumors are true, it would seem that is now the case. If the SL2 is for all intents and purpose a re-bodied S1R, there needs to be a lot more than better M-lens compatibility for me to even consider purchasing it at the current SL pricing level. Been on the list for this camera since March, but I'm now beginning to wonder it it was worth waiting for. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoMatthew Posted September 11, 2019 Share #43  Posted September 11, 2019 17 hours ago, jankojanko said: The SL was quite an innovative body...not so long ago. That’s true. And to be fair, this is an update, not an entirely new concept. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prismstorm Posted September 11, 2019 Share #44  Posted September 11, 2019 Agree with Gordon and others that the rumored body is a step backwards in terms of controls, I own the M10, SL, Q2 and owned the CL before, and the SL's four unmarked buttons the customizable long press functions is the most efficient layout, better than the three buttons on the left of M10, CL and Q2, which are harder to reach when you are holding the camera with your eye to the EVF because now there are no more back buttons your right thumb can reach and control except for the joystick. I set one of the SL's right side unnamed buttons to Long Press for ISO, and now that's gone out of the window. Worse, the SL's to top right thumb wheel does not look like it has a programmable button in the middle of the wheel like the CL and the Q2. Overall, the mockup picture seems pretty in line with what Dr.Kaufman hinted about a future SL successor body in the Luminous Landscape video and the RDF Breakfast interview, which were 'more elegant lines and more M10 like'. Personally I hugely prefer the more aggressive and square form of the original over the lines and angular surfaces of this new one. The original looks less cramped, more clean and spartan, and more ready to take on the beasty SL lenses. The horseshoe thing around the lens mount, the protruding lugs are all aesthetically backwards to me. Lastly, there doesn't seem to be rumors about sensor IBIS, which will make it so much harder to take advantage of the 47MP sensor (Q2 has OIS), and makes the potentially huge markup over the S1R that much harder to swallow.  1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted September 11, 2019 Share #45 Â Posted September 11, 2019 Without IBIS... this is HUGE LOSER... at any price. Very happy with my S1R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron777 Posted September 11, 2019 Share #46  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Donzo98 said: Without IBIS... this is HUGE LOSER... at any price. Very happy with my S1R. Couldn’t agree more. But even with IBIS, considering Leica’s general price point, it will be a hard sell with the S1R on the market. Edited September 11, 2019 by ron777 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted September 11, 2019 Share #47  Posted September 11, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I like features such as IBIS and tilt screen but not at the price of added size and weight. Leica can never compete with electronics companies in regards to features and cost-performance ratio. They should focus on their strengths, which is design, ergonomics, UI, simplicity, optics, and color science. There are reasons why folks prefer the X1D over the GFX system, and the same applies for the SL2. The SL2 looks to be around 5mm shorter in height than the original, which is a plus. As for weight, the SL sits at 849 grams with battery, which is 169g lighter than the 1,018 gram S1R. If they can manage to make the SL2 even lighter (ie 750g) that would be enough to sway me away from the Panasonic behemoths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jk1002 Posted September 11, 2019 Share #48 Â Posted September 11, 2019 It looks so similar to the S1R, obviously it is co developed why do we think it would not have IBIS. For the price point, that is an issue on all models and they seem to get away with it. In fact, to me it looks like the listened to the we want a Q with interchangeable lenses crowd which might be smarter than running after the pro level segment. Cheers JK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted September 11, 2019 Share #49  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Jk1002 said: It looks so similar to the S1R, obviously it is co developed why do we think it would not have IBIS. Although it looks similar from the front, none of the leaked photos suggest that the SL2 is thicker than the original. Slim body = no IBIS Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2019 by Mr.Q Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/301287-vader-certainly-isnt-any-prettier/?do=findComment&comment=3817704'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted September 11, 2019 Share #50  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) IBIS has been confirmed to several people on the German forum. The inability to set the focus point because the joystick can’t be reached is the biggest joke, and the fact that ISO has to be set in the menu. I suspect, someone is having a good laugh about this discussion at Leica. Edit - IBIS was confirmed to a dealer, www.FOTOGOERLITZ.de, by three people in #469 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/293539-spekulationen-zur-sl2/page/24/#comments  Edited September 11, 2019 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoreserve Posted September 11, 2019 Share #51  Posted September 11, 2019 vor 8 Minuten schrieb Chaemono: IBIS has been confirmed to several people on the German forum. The inability to set the focus point because the joystick can’t be reached is the biggest joke, and the fact that ISO has to be set in the menu. I suspect, someone is having a good laugh about this discussion at Leica. SL‘s 2 joystick can‘t be reached??? Really??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted September 11, 2019 Share #52  Posted September 11, 2019 No, it can’t. Look where it’s placed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoreserve Posted September 11, 2019 Share #53  Posted September 11, 2019 vor 2 Minuten schrieb Chaemono: No, it can’t. Look where it’s placed. Same position as Mk1, isn‘t it? Never had any problems with that... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted September 11, 2019 Share #54  Posted September 11, 2019 vor 6 Minuten schrieb panoreserve: Same position as Mk1, isn‘t it? Never had any problems with that... Good. This leaves the ‘how-to-set-the-ISO-without-having-to-go-to-the-menu’ question to be answered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 11, 2019 Share #55  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) Joystick seems to be at the same position. Never been a problem with SL. And SL2 seems a tad narrower. So this is just bad rap. By the way, SL joystick is a joy to use. Glad they keep it untouched. ISO can be set to one of the function buttons. FN or top button or even front button. Just like SL before, Q2 and CL now. Not a problem at all IBIS do not required thicker body. Just look at Sony’s Edited September 11, 2019 by nicci78 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted September 11, 2019 Share #56  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) it will have to have IBIS to make sense of the 48MP and given size/heft of the lenses - also I hope no compulsory LENR I find the layout disappointing, as I mentioned on the other trail on the topic, the loss of the 4 programmable buttons - if true - it is a step backwards Will wait to see on ergonomics and other specs for EVF etc, but otherwise happy to stay with the current SL and wait to see what Sigma does with the rumoured Foveon L-camera Edited September 11, 2019 by Fedro 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted September 11, 2019 Share #57 Â Posted September 11, 2019 compulsory LENR... beats me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted September 11, 2019 Share #58  Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr.Q said: Although it looks similar from the front, none of the leaked photos suggest that the SL2 is thicker than the original. Slim body = no IBIS Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! the actual IBIS "cage" would be in this area...looks like enough space for the SL...they probably just want to charge more for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted September 11, 2019 Share #59  Posted September 11, 2019 vor 39 Minuten schrieb nicci78: ISO can be set to one of the function buttons. FN or top button or even front button. Just like SL before, Q2 and CL now. Not a problem at all To assign functions like ISO and focus mode to a tiny FN knob on top or tiny front buttons in a camera that boasts fast and fluid operations if not a joke is idiotic IMO. The CL has large wheels with buttons inside that can be easily reached, not a tiny little grey FN knob that most people forget that it‘s even there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyros Moutsouris Posted September 11, 2019 Share #60  Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Chaemono said: To assign functions like ISO and focus mode to a tiny FN knob on top or tiny front buttons in a camera that boasts fast and fluid operations if not a joke is idiotic IMO. The CL has large wheels with buttons inside that can be easily reached, not a tiny little grey FN knob that most people forget that it‘s even there. I suspect that SL2 will copy the button inside the wheel layout from CL... less so a pull and rotate for ISO as with M... Edited September 11, 2019 by Kyros Moutsouris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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