"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[Chaemono]

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb hillavoider:

Must be something to do with cine mode, could be a S1R and S1H combined 

+1.  S1R sensor but with a fan to keep it cool.  This will reduce dark current and improve IQ.  Makes sense.  SL2 is probably thicker in the back than what the leaked pictures seem to  show.

[nicci78]

31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

There are parallels in car manufacture. BMW, Jaguar and Landrover use the same platform. Yet somebody considering one of these brands would never consider one of the other.

 

 

 

You are right, I don’t consider Panasonic. Do not like their UI and the unnecessary big size of their cameras. 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Of course not. Even Panasonic will have to wait 3 or more years to pay for S1R, before launching S2R. 

But cheaper S10 will see the day of light way before. 

The price of S1R will certainly plumet until then. But SL2 price will stay stable. 

I doubt that is the business strategy I’m familiar with.

I not so sure SL2 price will hold if it were such a loser you & Chaemono has made it to be?

[Chaemono]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb sillbeers15:

I doubt that is the business strategy I’m familiar with.

I not so sure SL2 price will hold if it were such a loser you & Chaemono has made it to be?

I think, SL2 price will stay stable because of the red dot.  I agree with Nicci, S1R price will plummet because its CDAF hunts too much.

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

There are parallels in car manufacture. BMW, Jaguar and Landrover use the same platform. Yet somebody considering one of these brands would never consider one of the other.

 

 

 

Yes. Nothing bad about it. But manufacturers ensure the feel, sound and handling of individual machines do not remind the end users of driving ‘common’ platform.

Same goes for Leica. If users feedback that the IQ, DR, ISO AF all perform identical . It cannot work. Now if users were perceptions that the SL2 is a better platform for SL & M lenses, it will fuel the customer loyalty for SL3.

I was just browsing the Leica SL official site. Boy oh boy, there is so much marketing work on AF speed, tracking. Which we all know that it is SL’s weakness. But I just hope I am right to think that Leica Engineers will at least yield some good results in making the AF tracking work well in the SL2 in view of the meeting customer expectations. 

I’ll wait and see, if the new Maestro III processor will indeed be powerful enough to make good AF tracking.

Edited November 4, 2019 by sillbeers15

[sillbeers15]

6 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I think, SL2 price will stay stable because of the red dot.  I agree with Nicci, S1R price will plummet because its CDAF hunts too much.

The firmware 1.2 reduced lots of hunting on the S1R.

[nicci78]

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34 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I doubt that is the business strategy I’m familiar with.

I not so sure SL2 price will hold if it were such a loser you & Chaemono has made it to be?

Be assure that I never said that it is a loser. I quite like the camera. It is just not what I am looking for. 
I also just want to state, that in reality the two cameras are sharing the same core. Software and body are totally different though. And better M lenses support is a given.  But is it enough for S1R users to jump ship ? 
 

By the way you have tested it. So you already know that AF is not into Sony territory. 
It will be this way as long as Panasonic stubbornly stick with DFD. 
 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb sillbeers15:

I was just browsing the Leica SL official site. Boy oh boy, there is so much marketing work on AF speed, tracking. Which we all know that it is SL’s weakness. But I just hope I am right to think that Leica Engineers will at least yield some good results in making the AF tracking work well in the SL2 in view of the meeting customer expectations. 

I’ll wait and see, if the new Maestro III processor will indeed be powerful enough to make good AF tracking.

We're all guilty of drinking too much marketing Kool-Aid at times.  I think, what you really want is an α9 II.  Images won't be as sharp because of OLPF/AA-filter but either you're sharp or you're fast is my motto.  BTW, I also never said that the SL2 is a loser...but may do so if the files are crap. 😂 

[nicci78]

According to le monde de la photo if you are using Lumix S1R, you should not use Panasonic lenses. They are excellent with S1 24MP, but only average with S1R 47MP. 

You have to use Leica SL lenses to get excellent results with 47MP sensor. 
 

So even if Leica did not sell as many bodies as they wish. Lenses will sell by themselves. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

According to le monde de la photo if you are using Lumix S1R, you should not use Panasonic lenses. They are excellent with S1 24MP, but only average with S1R 47MP. 

You have to use Leica SL lenses to get excellent results with 47MP sensor. 

This totally confounds me now.  The Lumix S Pro 50/1.4 is super sharp.

[nicci78]

50mm is ok.
But 24-105 and 70-200 cracked under the pressure. 
So I suspect that they won’t do well with CL. 
Once again Leica SL lenses will better with CL. 
 

Edited November 4, 2019 by nicci78

[bags27]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

50mm is ok.
But 24-105 and 70-200 cracked under the pressure. 
So I suspect that they won’t do well with CL. 
Once again Leica SL lenses will better with CL. 
 

Boojay (Jayne) is the only photographer I can think of who has posted photos of the CL with the 24-105. I believe she has reported to the effect that it is a good, but not a great pairing. I guess we'd also want have to see comparatives with the 2 Lumix cameras.

[Boojay]

2 hours ago, bags27 said:

Boojay (Jayne) is the only photographer I can think of who has posted photos of the CL with the 24-105. I believe she has reported to the effect that it is a good, but not a great pairing. I guess we'd also want have to see comparatives with the 2 Lumix cameras.

Best thing I can say about the 24-105 on the CL is that I wouldn't be without it now.  It's a great walk around and for me can easily replace both the 18-56 and the 55-135 on a trip, although as I've said before, in good light IQ is (slightly) better from both of Leica zooms, but it is minimal.   My gut tells me if I could stand the size, weight (not to mention cost) of the 24-90 IQ would be even better.

I'm using the 24-105 on the S1 also now, and it's just what you would expect.  I don't take photo's of brick walls, or even pixel peep to any degree but it's the same as I came to expect from the RF 24-105 when I had the EOS R, and the later version of the EF 24-105 when I had the 5D4, no better no worse.  

Shoot me down by all means, but I believe most on this forum are like me, that is photography is a passion not a way of earning a living and it's down to how much you can afford or feel comfortable spending.  I still have a couple of photography "jobs" each year, websites, stock images for friends/family local businesses.  Truthfully I am so used to doing them I know I don't need the best, I could pretty much do them with the CL and 18-56.

 

 

[thighslapper]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

But 24-105 and 70-200 cracked under the pressure. 

No idea where they get that from for the 70-200.

It's 'Leica Certified' as a 'Pro' lens and in my extensive experience on the S1R performs easily as well as the Leica zooms. So much so that my 90-280 has been mothballed for now. 

[Jeff S]

12 hours ago, nicci78 said:

...CL against XT-2 is not in the same situation. The most obvious difference is that one is classical Bayer, the other is X-Trans. Just for the weird sensor I will never buy Fujifilm cameras.

 

 

 

FWIW, the larger sensor Fuji GFX cameras (both 50MP bodies and the 100MP version) are Bayer based, not X-Trans.

Jeff

[nicci78]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

FWIW, the larger sensor Fuji GFX cameras (both 50MP bodies and the 100MP version) are Bayer based, not X-Trans.

Jeff

But Fujifilm APS-C X cameras are. And they are the main competitor of the CL, not GFX. 😉 

GFX cameras are very nice. But I still have issue with them being so ugly. At Quasimodo’s level of ugliness. And I do not like the way they handle. Especially the GFX-50R. Fujifilm’s cameras seem to be made for a different kind of hands, than mine. 

[ron777]

2 hours ago, thighslapper said:

No idea where they get that from for the 70-200.

It's 'Leica Certified' as a 'Pro' lens and in my extensive experience on the S1R performs easily as well as the Leica zooms. So much so that my 90-280 has been mothballed for now. 

+1.

I use it all of the time with an S1r and find it to be excellent.

[ron777]

8 hours ago, nicci78 said:

50mm is ok.
But 24-105 and 70-200 cracked under the pressure. 
So I suspect that they won’t do well with CL. 
Once again Leica SL lenses will better with CL. 
 

What exactly does "cracks under pressure" mean? Like, under the rear tire of an eighteen wheeler?  That comment reeks of product bias.

[ron777]

46 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

But Fujifilm APS-C X cameras are. And they are the main competitor of the CL, not GFX. 😉 

GFX cameras are very nice. But I still have issue with them being so ugly. At Quasimodo’s level of ugliness. And I do not like the way they handle. Especially the GFX-50R. Fujifilm’s cameras seem to be made for a different kind of hands, than mine. 

"I still have issue with them being so ugly."   Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  Personally, i thought that the SL was ugly upon first laying eyes upon it, but it's the output that counts, and the GFX 50s and 100 have, IMO and experience, what it takes to produce superior images.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[IkarusJohn]

24 minutes ago, ron777 said:

"I still have issue with them being so ugly."   Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  Personally, i thought that the SL was ugly upon first laying eyes upon it, but it's the output that counts, and the GFX 50s and 100 have, IMO and experience, what it takes to produce superior images.

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder, as is the feel in hand, size, placement of buttons, functionality and menu architecture.  I don’t mind the brutalism of the SL - it reflects the clarity of the user interface, and the output is superb.  I’ve had one since release, and barely given its looks a second thought - it functions so well as a photographers’ camera, in my experience.

I saw no need to explore the GFX100 beyond its initial looks taking my breath away!

Conversely, the T and M based cameras and the X1D II looked so good to me, I decided I would just work out how to make them function.  Not so much the D800e - its looks didn’t appeal, but I had hope for its functionality (as a long term Nikon user), but I was wrong ...