"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[Chaemono]

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb michali:

sniping over the specs of a camera of which we have sketchy or at best limited information.  Seriously??? 😂

Speak for yourself. 😂

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[nicci78]

@michali

Actually we pretty much know everything about the camera. With dozens of french customers testing it throughout October. And Leica itself are leaking photos and specs to Nokhishita  and Instagram. 
It is the least protected secret. But it is by design. Leica has always used rumours to create a momentum for launching its new product with a maximum of excitement. 
 

Just to sum up : it is not an S1R clone. Nothing like a simple paint job of LX100 II to make a D-Lux 7. 
It is like the Q, the SL and the Q2 before it. SL2 is genuinely a real Leica. But it uses lots and lots of Panasonic tech within its own body, menu and Maestro chip. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

I believe Leica chose France for the global launch of the SL2 because that customer base probably appreciates the fusion of design with state of the art technology a bit more than the rest of us.  

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

No, they don’t.  I have an α7R III and a Z7 and could post examples until the cows come home.  But I won’t.  What I will do, though, is compare the SL2 to the S1R (and the S1), hopefully soon (keep my fingers crossed, next week).  And I’ll feel pretty comfortable to do this because that 47 MPx sensor ain’t in the SL2.  😀.
 

BTW, the CL sensor has a lower pixel pitch and a higher pixel density than the S1R/Q2 sensor and the files don’t fall apart. 

I have the Z7 and A7R3 as well, plus the S1R. In real world shooting there's little difference between them. When pushed the Z7 is *slightly* better at low ISO. It does especially well at ISO 64. The A7R3 handles high ISO noise very slightly better than the other two. But the A7R3 very occasionally suffers from banding due to the PDAF points on the sensor. But it only shows occasionally. The S1R has a slight dip in DR between 250 and 640 but roughly equivalent at ISO 100. But it retains a bit more detail and colour information while showing a bit more noise at high ISO.In my side by side testing all three cameras are so close that in real world use it's a non event. When shooting handheld, depending on subject movement, you can often shoot at a lower ISO on the S1R due to the stunning IBIS performance. The L lenses are also better, somewhat, than the competition. Depending on the shooting envelope I can make all these sensors, and almost any other fall apart. The real trick wasn't to compare each sensor to another with the same settings and processing software. The real trick is taking the time to get the best from each of these awesome cameras by exploiting the settings that make the sensors shine.

Attached is an ISO 400 file with a +70 shadow push and +1 stop exposure in LR. DXO has less noise but also less detail. It's not a file I would print because I also have a file that was exposed properly

I'm really over the idea that there are any "dud" sensors in 2019. There's maybe a few percent difference difference between all of the top 40+MP sensors. The idea that a sensor that's a couple of percent behind the competition must be crap is boring and old and untrue. I can shoot great files with any modern camera from an iPhone up. We can all do our own limited testing but none of us can really truly test a sensors full capabilities. Since the A7R2  pretty much ever sensor upgrade has been incremental within it's class. The class leading sensor in DR and colour is 5 years old (GFX/645Z/X1D). The A74 has *slightly* less DR than the A7R3. So what? It's still a good sensor. All modern sensors are.

Not to mention that a sensor does not, a camera system make. It's probably the least important part of the modern photography (circa 2019) workflow. I would suggest that if with almost any modern camera if you're having issues with noise and colour that the sensor performance isn't the issue.

Gordon

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[nicci78]

46 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I believe Leica chose France for the global launch of the SL2 because that customer base probably appreciates the fusion of design with state of the art technology a bit more than the rest of us.  

I think that they postponed the launch. Because they want to be sure that the camera is ready for prime time. Having lots of beta testers is the best way to solve most of problems. 
Of course some specs are already set in marble. 
Right now the SL2 is a lovely camera. Very speedy and way better than Q2. New CPU makes miracle. I wished that they had also postponed Q2 to fit Maestro III inside. Right now Q2 is underpowered. Some features from SL2 may never come to Q2 because of old chip. 😢 

In the past Q and SL shared the same brain. But now Q2 is a second tier camera. SL2 being the best of the best. 
 

It does not make sense to launch an S3 with Maestro II. It will be wiser to delay it and fit the new Maestro III inside. 

[sillbeers15]

29 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

I think that they postponed the launch. Because they want to be sure that the camera is ready for prime time. Having lots of beta testers is the best way to solve most of problems. 
Of course some specs are already set in marble. 
Right now the SL2 is a lovely camera. Very speedy and way better than Q2. New CPU makes miracle. I wished that they had also postponed Q2 to fit Maestro III inside. Right now Q2 is underpowered. Some features from SL2 may never come to Q2 because of old chip. 😢 

In the past Q and SL shared the same brain. But now Q2 is a second tier camera. SL2 being the best of the best. 
 

It does not make sense to launch an S3 with Maestro II. It will be wiser to delay it and fit the new Maestro III inside. 

Nicci78,

Thanks for your description of the SL2, care to illustrate a little more about ‘speedy’? I ‘ll probably understand you better tomorrow this hour.

[Chuck Albertson]

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3 hours ago, michali said:

I suspect that the nail biting stress of anxiously waiting for the release of the SL2 is starting to get to some; sniping over the specs of a camera of which we have sketchy or at best limited information.  Seriously??? 😂

I suspect that, back in the day, Cro-Magnons argued about whether Igor's new club would emerge from his cave-factory with better swing speed and stopping power than his current model.

[nicci78]

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

Nicci78,

Thanks for your description of the SL2, care to illustrate a little more about ‘speedy’? I ‘ll probably understand you better tomorrow this hour.

It is as fast as you wished it can be. Faster than Q2. The latter feels now an old camera next to the new SL2.

AF is fast and nice. But nothing as fancy as Sony A7R III or IV. No PDAF. 

If you tried S1R, it is the same experience AF wise. 

 

[Chaemono]

That’s a bummer because the AF of the S1 is faster than of the S1R.  Those looking for the fastest AF performance, like sillbeers15, should stick to the S1 then.

[nicci78]

I haven't tried them side by side. But by memory they did not seems different. But you have to make your own test to be sure. 

What you have to know, is that SL2 is by far the best Leica camera right now, in every possible way. Except its weight of course. For much lighter option stick with CL or Q2. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

I haven't tried them side by side. But by memory they did not seems different. But you have to make your own test to be sure. 

What you have to know, is that SL2 is by far the best Leica camera right now, in every possible way. Except its weight of course. For much lighter option stick with CL or Q2. 

Thanks. On a different note, do you know if availability in France will coincide with the announcement next week? 

[sillbeers15]

I’m interested in the AF tracking capability which was what the SL was not so good at being consistent. I believe the problem lies with limited processing power of SL rather than AF not fast enough.

[nicci78]

19 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Thanks. On a different note, do you know if availability in France will coincide with the announcement next week? 

No idea about real availability. When ready I guess. But resellers used to lie about this date. Last time, I was told that Q2 will be available at the end of March. But finally it was available in good quantity the very same day of announcement. 

 

Funny fact about weight. SL2 + APO-Summicron-SL 2/50 =

• Q2 + CL + Summilux-TL 1.4/35
• CL + Super-Vario-Elmar-TL 11-23 + Vario-Elmar-TL 18-56 + APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135
• CL + handgrip + thumb rest + Elmarit-TL 2.8/18 + Summicron-TL 2/23 + Summilux-TL 1.4/35 + APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 2.8/60 
• M10 + Elmarit-M 2.8/28 II + Summilux-M 1.4/50 + APO-Summicron-M 2/75

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

Everything else equal, 24 MPx will focus faster than 47 MPx, sillbeers15. Can you get your down payment back?

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Minute schrieb nicci78:

No idea about real availability. When ready I guess. But resellers used to lie about this date. Last time, I was told that Q2 will be available at the end of March. But finally it was available in good quantity right after the announcement. 

 

Funny fact about weight : 

SL2 + APO-Summicron-SL 2/50 = Q2 + CL + Summilux-TL 1.4/35

or 

SL2 + APO-Summicron-SL 2/50 = CL + Super-Vario-Elmar-TL 11-23 + Vario-Elmar-TL 18-56 + APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135

or 

SL2 + APO-Summicron-SL 2/50 = M10 + Elmarit-M 2.8/28 II + Summilux-M 1.4/50 + APO-Summicron-M 2/75

 

Funny, indeed. But who mounts cameras or lenses stacked? 😁

[nicci78]

8 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I’m interested in the AF tracking capability which was what the SL was not so good at being consistent. I believe the problem lies with limited processing power of SL rather than AF not fast enough.

Don't worry SL2 is faster than SL. Maestro III is way more powerful than Maestro II, and it shows. 

[nicci78]

1 minute ago, Chaemono said:

Funny, indeed. But who mounts cameras or lenses stacked? 😁

Ha ha, my bag and my back stacked them for me 😆

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

Everything else equal, 24 MPx will focus faster than 47 MPx, sillbeers15. Can you get your down payment back?

Haha. I have confidence in Leica when I hear Maestro III processor. I just need to test it myself.

btw Focusing depends on number of focusing points independent of MPx. Rather a slow processor cannot cope with fast number of focusing recalculation to nail each frame with sharp focus while performing focus tracking. Certainly part of processing power will be taken up by image processing as well which more MPx will take up more processing juice.

Edited October 29, 2019 by sillbeers15

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[helged]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Don't worry SL2 is faster than SL. Maestro III is way more powerful than Maestro II, and it shows. 

Any idea of max frames per second on the SL2 - is it comparable to the SL (around 11 fps)?

[caissa]

Did the beta testers get a manual ? Is it online somewhere ?