"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[nicci78]

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14 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

I actually like my Panasonic rice cooker. Will buy again.

you're right, I also got a top of the line Panasonic rice cooker. It can still cook excellent rice after more than 12 years of weekly use. 😋🍚 

 

I am just talking about Lumix cameras. Got issues with their bad after-sale services. And poorly build TZ100, which lens is one of the worst existing for a compact. I think I can say that I do not trust this brand anymore. It always puzzles me that Leica is teaming up with them. 

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[colonel]

I prefer the smooth middle of the SL rather then the wrap around leatherette

otherwise the SL2 is different but nice 

[nicci78]

The more I look at it, the more I like the new design. 

I also like the move to 3 buttons UI. Consistency is important for using with latest Leica cameras. 

But after using M10, CL and Q2 ; I would have put the 3 buttons on the right of the screen, not on the left ! 

Putting them on the left, makes them a two hands cameras. However on the right, they could be used with the right hand only. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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Edited September 12, 2019 by nicci78

[Chaemono]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

The more I look at it, the more I like the new design. 

I also like the move to 3 buttons UI. Consistency is important for using with latest Leica cameras. 

But after using M10, CL and Q2 ; I would have put the 3 buttons on the right of the screen, not on the left ! 

Putting them on the left, makes them a two hands cameras. However on the right, they could be used with the right hand only. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You must be getting closer to the real thing, Nicci. Please, photoshop the top part, too, with a button inside the control wheel, even add a second wheel, perhaps. 😁

Edited September 12, 2019 by Chaemono

[caissa]

1 hour ago, NicholasT said:

I also look forward to Jono's SL2 review. I've found his past reviews to be very balanced and informative. 

That said no single reviewer or group of reviewers for that matter that is going to fundamentally change the nature of an announcement. The SL2 will be what the SL2 will be.

If one takes the totality of the feedback in this thread a few common themes emerge: 

- Most appear to favor the inclusions of IBIS and to some it's a "must have".

- Most appear to favor a camera that is lighter but preferably no heavier than the current model

- There is a also significant group that says that S1R ergonomics are good enough to make a heavier camera totally viable ( this is totally credible since folks have already voted with their pocketbook) That said, reading between the lines I don't believe that this same group is saying they are actually hope that the SL2 comes in at over 1 kg.

- There appears to be almost universal agreement that the original SL was a groundbreaking camera with a superior user interface, EVF and that it has stood the test of time. 

- A significant percentage (myself included) would miss the current user programmable 4 button setup. 

Beyond the specific features and cameras specs on which no group of users is ever going to agree on, there seems to be a general consensus that for SL2 to succeed in the market it will have to have more than just an increase in MP and simpler Leica user interface. Particularly considering its premium positioning / price point, there will have to be some added differentiation that will make it unique in its own right in what is an increasingly crowded and competitive market. 

For current SL users there is simply no alternative than the SL2, this will make it a success. But of course this is a small number compared to M users. Current S1R users are not necessarily switching.  And I see no video users switching to the SL2 ...

Is this bad ? No, because Leica cannot produce big numbers of cameras, so big demand would cause a very low customer satisfaction ...  (because of the delays)

Edited September 12, 2019 by caissa

[Kyros Moutsouris]

3 minutes ago, caissa said:

For current SL users there is simply no alternative than the SL2, this will make it a success. But of course this is a small number compared to M users. Current S1R users are not necessarily switching.  And I see no video users switching to the SL2 ...

Is this bad ? No, because Leica cannot produce big numbers of cameras, so big demand would cause a very low customer satisfaction ...

There is a new “Cine” mode, I guess for cine lenses...

[caissa]

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Who cares about Cine ? The modern phones also offer 4K video, who needs more ? The software is crucial, not so much the perfection of the lenses. Maybe this is different for top video users, but how many of them are there ?

IBIS and highres mode are more important for photographers. Any confirmation (that the camera allows sensor shift) ? And also the bloody LENR is of more importance, or if the camera has USB power source (able to run (endless) on USB and able to load battery from USB like the S1R).  (T can and Q cannot ?! )

Edited September 12, 2019 by caissa

[Kyros Moutsouris]

2 hours ago, caissa said:

Who cares about Cine ? The modern phones also offer 4K video, who needs more ? The software is crucial, not so much the perfection of the lenses. Maybe this is different for top video users, but how many of them are there ?

IBIS and highres mode are more important for photographers. Any confirmation (that the camera allows sensor shift) ? And also the bloody LENR is of more importance, or if the camera has USB power source (able to run (endless) on USB and able to load battery from USB like the S1R).  (T can and Q cannot ?! )

The video users that you mentioned at your previous comment may care about Cine... I personally don't, and at the moment I'm gonna stick with my CL :-)

[Tailwagger]

11 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

I may be a fool, but the last time I checked Lumix bodies use thick cover glass for their sensors. That fact alone is a non-starter for me and M users. 

ahhh... I'm an M user. Two of them. YMMV, but to me, the allure of the L-Alliance comes down to the stellar performance of the new Summicrons.  M lens compatibility, really only an issue at the wide end, is a nice to have AFAIC, not a necessity.  For this M user it is is no way worth the cost of half another M. That money  is far better spent on an M11 if and when it arrives.

[NicholasT]

3 hours ago, caissa said:

For current SL users there is simply no alternative than the SL2, this will make it a success. But of course this is a small number compared to M users. Current S1R users are not necessarily switching.  And I see no video users switching to the SL2 ...

Is this bad ? No, because Leica cannot produce big numbers of cameras, so big demand would cause a very low customer satisfaction ...  (because of the delays)

Don't disagree with your general point, but would argue that current SL owners have an option you are not considering.

While many of us may suffer from moderate to severe Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS,) when you come right down to it nobody is "compelled" to upgrade. Current SL owners can simply hang onto their SL and skip a generation.

The notion that the SL V1 is out of date or can't take wonderful images is not a view I subscribe to. I would venture to guess that most SL owners are happily and productively using their SL's  as we speak and could happily continue to do so.

Speaking for myself if the new camera does not have IBIS and/or something compelling beyond extra resolution and few cosmetic changes, I will not upgrade to SL2 and will check back when SL3 is introduced.

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, caissa said:

Who cares about Cine ? The modern phones also offer 4K video, who needs more ? The software is crucial, not so much the perfection of the lenses. Maybe this is different for top video users, but how many of them are there ?

IBIS and highres mode are more important for photographers. Any confirmation (that the camera allows sensor shift) ? And also the bloody LENR is of more importance, or if the camera has USB power source (able to run (endless) on USB and able to load battery from USB like the S1R).  (T can and Q cannot ?! )

Er - perhaps those people who use the SL for video already? For which it is very capable.
Modern phones also offer high res raw stills as well, but I don't hear too many people saying they'll pass on the S1/S1R/SL/SL2 in favour of a phone.

But yes, I fully understand: you don't care about video - I don't have a problem with that.

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, caissa said:

Who cares about Cine ? The modern phones also offer 4K video, who needs more ? The software is crucial, not so much the perfection of the lenses. Maybe this is different for top video users, but how many of them are there ?

I care about cine as well, certainly more than I do about IBIS (unnecessary on a camera that can do a clean 6400 ISO), or LENR (Sony lets you turn it off, but the Milky Way will disappear from your pictures...).

 

The SL is a great video camera. It's one of the few that works well with older cine lenses that have a short backfocus distance. I think most cinematographers will argue that the lenses are everything, and that the camera is much less relevant to the finished product.

I have no problem with people shooting video or stills on their phone, but it's very limiting. Video comes-out horribly compressed.

I am interested in seeing what the new cine features are all about. The SL had better video performance than any other stills camera when it came out (and for a few years after), but Leica didn't finish what they started. For instance, they have an "L-Log" format, but no LUT or IDT to decode it.

[helged]

7 hours ago, Chaemono said:

You must be getting closer to the real thing, Nicci. Please, photoshop the top part, too, with a button inside the control wheel, even add a second wheel, perhaps. 😁

And add a non-heating IBIS, please. 

[Chaemono]

It’s in there. The question is who supplies it. 😁

[saxo]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb NicholasT:

While many of us may suffer from moderate to severe Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS,) when you come right down to it nobody is "compelled" to upgrade. Current SL owners can simply hang onto their SL and skip a generation.

I'm a current SL user, and yes, just an Panasonic S1R in Leica clothes wouldn't convince me.

An increase in dynamic range like M9 vs SL would be a good argument to me, but I don't believe the sensor technique made such a hugh step. And don't forget, the SL2 will cost less than 2/3 of the inital price in 2 to 3 years time..... and most of us know how quick time passes by

[hexx]

Common people, Leica isn’t a new startup and they’ve done a lot of research to work out if for given investment in R&D there’s a profit to be made. 

Yes, some of us will frown at the (yet to be announced) camera, others will buy it straight away. 

They’re in in a business to make money and they did the maths. It might put off some of the current customers but it might attract new ones too. 

It’s ok, they know what they’re doing. It’s the same as M and iterations in that range throughout the years. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by hexx
Typos

[nicci78]

Just like every business, a new product is a bet.

Otherwise it will too easy, if you accountants can predict accurately the future sales  

Leica has made lots of mistakes in the distant past and at present time. 

Only time will tell if the SL2 will be a success or not  

 

[sillbeers15]

Now that we’re quite certain that the SL2 will contain a 47.3MP sensor and not the earlier thought 36MPX Sony sensor which will come along with a more reliable AF-C tracking capability, the question is how close or ‘clone’ it will be to the Pana S1R in specification and real world performance.for us Leica users to decide if the SL2 should be chosen over S1R apart from the fact that the SL2 will equally to the cost of two S1R.

In my thoughts are how soon will Pana replace the S1R over a 4 years life cycle of SL which we are all familiar with. If the SL2 is simply a clone to S1R, we can look forward to the next S1R.

Edited September 13, 2019 by sillbeers15

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[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15:

Now that we’re quite certain that the SL2 will contain a 47.3MP sensor and not the earlier thought 36MPX Sony sensor which will come along with a more reliable AF-C tracking capability, the question is how close or ‘clone’ it will be to the Pana S1R in specification and real world performance.for us Leica users to decide if the SL2 should be chosen over S1R apart from the fact that the SL2 will equally to the cost of two S1R.

In my thoughts are how soon will Pana replace the S1R over a 4 years life cycle of SL which we are all familiar with. If the SL2 is simply a clone to S1R, we can look forward to the next S1R.

If you see the low light performance of that 47.3 MPx sensor, you will get neither, unless you only shoot static objects. I might show some high ISO comparisons, S1 vs. S1R. The former likely uses a Sony sensor, IMX410CQK-C, the other uses an FSI sensor from TowerJazz. If what Nokishita was given shows the SL2, I’ll publicly eat my underpants on YouTube.

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

If you see the low light performance of that 47.3 MPx sensor, you will get neither, unless you only shoot static objects. I might show some high ISO comparisons, S1 vs. S1R. The former likely uses a Sony sensor, IMX410CQK-C, the other uses an FSI sensor from TowerJazz. If what Nokishita was given shows the SL2, I’ll publicly eat my underpants on YouTube.

What are the real world corns on the 47.3 MP sensor used to taking moving subjects as the S1R sensor is less sensitive to Low light comparing to S1. ISO range of S1R is lesser than S1 on spec.