First a 35mm then....

[Shivaswrath]

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Since I'm new to manual focusing and the M10 system (but feel like I've been hitting good shots with an hour of practice), I'm looking to expand my camera bag beyond the 35 f/2 Cron.

I usually shoot family (75%) and auto (25%)...I'm debating between a 24 f3.8 (used $2100) or the 75 f/2 Cron (used 3199).

Would love to hear thoughts....(knowing full well that the 75 will be more tough to focus).

Here are some shots where I think I nailed the focus 🤔

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[TomB_tx]

It depends on your style. If you like working very close-in to you subject a 24 (or 21) can be interesting. I seldom use such wide lenses, so I would pair a 35 with a longer lens. I’ve used 35, 50, & 90 as my main kit for 50 years, but with the M10 don’t use a 50 as much, since a good 35 can be cropped quite a bit.

For a two lens kit adding a 75 would make sense for me, as I don’t work in close, and the longer lens helps me concentrate on details. I prefer the Summarit 75 & 90 for their size and handling, and the 75 is an exceptional lens.

[bayernfan]

For young children, I would get a 24mm and make use of the depth of field.  Judge the distance to subject, set the focus, and then set about capturing a special moment rather than fussing with "is it perfectly in focus?"  This would be near-impossible with a 75mm.

With an ultra-wide, will need to become accustomed to filling the dead space, which presents a new challenge.  However, I think that is easier to overcome than constantly chasing focus.

[Herr Barnack]

Since you already have a 35 Summicron, I would encourage you to look hard at either a 50mm or 75mm as your second lens.

I have shot so much with a 28mm and a 35mm that the 50mm focal length has come to feel to me almost like a short telephoto lens.  Limited to just two lenses, I would go with a 28mm and a 50mm.  The 35mm is pretty close to the 28 in terms of field of view and other considerations so the 28 and 35 are almost interchangeable.  Almost.

If you decide on a 50mm, take a look at the 50mm f/2.4 Summarit.  It is a truly excellent little lens at a bargain basement price.  

As for the 75mm Summicron being tough to focus, I have the APO 90mm Summicron and do pretty well with it in terms of nailing focus, even at f/2.  Focusing the 90 'cron at f/2 gets to be iffy near its minimum focus distance out to about 5 feet; it gets easier at 6-7 feet..  At about 9-12 feet, I have enough working distance to nail focus at f/2 consistently.

I would think that the 75 'cron would be much the same in terms of focusing at f/2 - probably a little less unforgiving at close range.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Herr Barnack

[spydrxx]

Nice shots, but..."doing well with an hour of practice" and looking to expand to additional lenses? Sorry,I may be old fashioned,  but that doesn't cut it in my book. You should try to master the nuances of what you have and then assess what it doesn't deliver before adding to your gear bag. If you can do that in less than a month and 1000 shots, my hat's off to you. But, assuming you're superhuman, both lenses would be great additions. The 75 for kids in static situations and autos, the 24 for kids in active situations and autos.

[david strachan]

Why do they move so much...children always on hi-octane...🤗

 

I know it's against the trend but perhaps try some bounce flash, set to allow local light influence as well.

 

Learn to use indoors flash, and i stress bounce, will add to your armament. Once you know the settings you like...use them again.

 

Buying another lens is not the answer.  What you have is an excellent universal lens...use it until you know all its foibles.

...

Edited August 7, 2019 by david strachan

[FrozenInTime]

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I would resist the temptation to cover as diverse a angle of view with few lenses; rather I would bias the view around 35mm.

Anything wider the 28mm wants a OVF or EVF which will slow down framing and focusing.

The 75mm would be good on the playing field or end of garden , but indoors is rather tight for anything impromptu, so you will miss shots swapping from 35 to 75 and back.

Hence after the 35, I would go for first a 50 Summilux then  28 Summicron and finally a 75mm.

[Gregm61]

Too many good options, especially at the 75mm focal length. Either the f2 APO Summicron or the 75mm f2.4 Summarit are outstanding. I also believe the new 75mm f1.5 Voigtlander about to hit the market will be a solid option.

$3,199 seems like a high price to pay for a second-hand 75mm f2 APO. The one I bought, which did not come with anything other than the front and rear lens caps, was $2,000, virtually like new, accurately focuses on my M bodies (film and digital) and was 6 bit coded with a serial number north of 4 million. I would think you could, even with the added extras of the box, leather cash, etc, find one in the $2,500 or so range.

If you go the wider route first, the 24mm f3.8 Elmar you are considering is one incredibly sharp from edge to edge lens. I often pair it with the 18mm f3.8 Super Elmar. Being more a wide shooter, 24mm is nice, but not wide enough. If I want just a one lens super-wide option, I leave those two at home and opt for the 21mm f3.4 Super Elmar.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Gregm61

[a.noctilux]

Time changes practices,

so there will never be false choice in lenses.

No lens is better than another one, only compromise.

 

After using/testing/carrying hundred of lenses over decades of Leica use, my preference is now weird but satisfaction is there.

After beguining with trio Summicron on M 35/50/90, passing from there over time and GAS with trio Summilux 35/50/75,

now I (my back and muscles/bones ) feel better with light weight from Leica LTM discovered later : Elmar, Summaron f/3.5 /35/50/90 when I don't use those nice

Summarit-M in 35/50/75 again with most pleasure than Summicron/Summilux/Noctilux

 

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Comparision of size 75/90 just for benefit of Summarit-M 75 😉

 

Left are nice old timer for M in 90mm Elmarit and Tele-Elmarit f/2.8

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by a.noctilux

[evikne]

I think a 75 Cron will be a nice and natural supplement to your 35mm. It will be useful when you are outdoors and have more space to go farther away, or when you wish a tighter framing. The two lenses will give your images a nice variety and contrast.

[rsolomon]

I have 35 cron and 75 cron, for me it’s a great balance of different perspectives yet lite enough to walk around for the day.

Learning the camera is likely more challenging than focusing the 35, the latter should be quite simple . I do find focusing the 75 can be tricky so I bought the EVF and my focus hit rate when using the EVF is 95% +. 

I can say the 75 cron is clinically sharp so think about the look you want - for me it’s a winner.

my other advice is to think about where you want to end up..... think down the road ...what do you want as a final setup. A 1, 2, 3, 4 lens kit? If you think about this upfront you’ll always know what the next purchase should be. For me I’m building a 4 lens kit and started in the middle to cover most situations... therefore 35 &75. I’ll add the super wide and super tele as time and funds permit. 

 

 

 

 

[albertknappmd]

35 + 75 makes more sense as it increases your versatility and options.

Albert

[Shivaswrath]

Thank you guys for all the advice and guidance! Very informative and really appreciate being part of an engaged community.

[Ouroboros]

17 hours ago, Shivaswrath said:

Since I'm new to manual focusing and the M10 system (but feel like I've been hitting good shots with an hour of practice), I'm looking to expand my camera bag beyond the 35 f/2 Cron.

I usually shoot family (75%) and auto (25%)...I'm debating between a 24 f3.8 (used $2100) or the 75 f/2 Cron (used 3199).

Would love to hear thoughts....(knowing full well that the 75 will be more tough to focus).

Here are some shots where I think I nailed the focus 🤔

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Not wishing to take the wind out of your sails, but both images are soft where I would want to see sharp focus (unless the pattern on the quilt in the first image was your intended point of focus).

Whichever lens you buy next will leave you wanting something else, either wider or longer, so I'd go for a 50mm next with a view to adding wider and longer further down the road.  Maybe concentrate on improving your skills before rushing to buy more lenses at this stage.

[a.noctilux]

My comments on 75mm Leica lenses that I use in three types.

 

- my first is Summilux-M 75mm since some decades with film like Kadachrome 25 it was a must,

results are at top with color hues not easy to duplicate with other lenses, but in digital it's very tricky to use,

so my wife bought us the new released by then the Apo-Summicron-M 75mm

 

- Apo-Summicron-M asph. 2/75mm was better or more friendly to use than the hefty Lux, but the results are different,

really sharp/contrasty but not "pleasant for portrait", top results for landscape/"things"/architecture

 

- Summarit-M 2.5/75mm last in the family my favorite for most use : ok for portrait (not too hard and easy to focus), nice for architecture, "things" or close portrait,

just a bit longer focus distance 90cm when other 75 Lux/Cron can focus to 75/70cm but that is enough for me in most use and for closer I use close-up lens Elpro in front with LV capable camera (in the newer 2.4/75mm Leica added the 70cm MFD).

[ChicagoMatthew]

18 hours ago, Shivaswrath said:

Since I'm new to manual focusing and the M10 system (but feel like I've been hitting good shots with an hour of practice), I'm looking to expand my camera bag beyond the 35 f/2 Cron.

I usually shoot family (75%) and auto (25%)...I'm debating between a 24 f3.8 (used $2100) or the 75 f/2 Cron (used 3199).

Would love to hear thoughts....(knowing full well that the 75 will be more tough to focus).

Here are some shots where I think I nailed the focus 🤔

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Kids are tough, they are always moving around. Since you’re inside I assume you’re stopped down to f2. So that cute baby of yours is in focus for a second and then moves just enough to fall out before you can trip the shutter. And your son, is just always out of the DOF because you’re sitting as close as you can to fill the frame. You’d be better off stopping down to f4 and dealing with the higher iso. IMO. 

As for what new lens to move into, I agree with the lot that your 35cron should suit you for 90% of your needs. And maybe you work on your technique before dropping more $$ into another lens. Because it’s not just as straight forward to jump between lenses as it is in a dslr. On a dslr, when you change a lens you see the change. On a rangefinder you see a different box, but your field of view is the same. So it takes time to anticipate what an image is going to look like with whatever f stop and distance you’re working with... so if you’re jumping between lenses right when you get into the system it might make it doubly difficult.

Having said that, if you’re going to get a new lens I would go wide. I wouldn’t go to 24, because the rangefinder only frames to 28 and viewfinders are annoying. Also, I would get at least f2.8... you’re always going to be happy you have it when you need it. I have the 28mm 2.8 elmarit asph and it’s great.. small, sharp, well built, etc. Also it takes the same clip on hood as the 35cron, if that’s the one you have. Also used they are around $800-$1000... pretty fair. 

You’re probably thinking 🤔 28 is so close to 35... that’s why I wanted 24. Well, it is and so is 50, which is probably why you picked 75. But, 35 is popular for a reason, it’s the best one lens compromise... honestly I think even if you get another lens, the 35 will sit on your camera most of the time. 

☝️My two cents! 

Edited August 7, 2019 by ChicagoMatthew

[Shivaswrath]

5 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Not wishing to take the wind out of your sails, but both images are soft where I would want to see sharp focus (unless the pattern on the quilt in the first image was your intended point of focus).

Whichever lens you buy next will leave you wanting something else, either wider or longer, so I'd go for a 50mm next with a view to adding wider and longer further down the road.  Maybe concentrate on improving your skills before rushing to buy more lenses at this stage.

Lol yeah those were definitely not the best...I think I nailed it on these? Critical eyes are always welcomed, I am learning!

If the below are off then I am in trouble.

 

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[Shivaswrath]

4 hours ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

Kids are tough, they are always moving around. Since you’re inside I assume you’re stopped down to f2. So that cute baby of yours is in focus for a second and then moves just enough to fall out before you can trip the shutter. And your son, is just always out of the DOF because you’re sitting as close as you can to fill the frame. You’d be better off stopping down to f4 and dealing with the higher iso. IMO. 

As for what new lens to move into, I agree with the lot that your 35cron should suit you for 90% of your needs. And maybe you work on your technique before dropping more $$ into another lens. Because it’s not just as straight forward to jump between lenses as it is in a dslr. On a dslr, when you change a lens you see the change. On a rangefinder you see a different box, but your field of view is the same. So it takes time to anticipate what an image is going to look like with whatever f stop and distance you’re working with... so if you’re jumping between lenses right when you get into the system it might make it doubly difficult.

Having said that, if you’re going to get a new lens I would go wide. I wouldn’t go to 24, because the rangefinder only frames to 28 and viewfinders are annoying. Also, I would get at least f2.8... you’re always going to be happy you have it when you need it. I have the 28mm 2.8 elmarit asph and it’s great.. small, sharp, well built, etc. Also it takes the same clip on hood as the 35cron, if that’s the one you have. Also used they are around $800-$1000... pretty fair. 

You’re probably thinking 🤔 28 is so close to 35... that’s why I wanted 24. Well, it is and so is 50, which is probably why you picked 75. But, 35 is popular for a reason, it’s the best one lens compromise... honestly I think even if you get another lens, the 35 will sit on your camera most of the time. 

☝️My two cents! 

Appreciate the POV and that is probably very valid.

Seems like I was "smart" in getting the 35/2...more than likely then I'll focus on mastering this and possibly add a flash to the bag.

I downsized to a Retrospective 5 so I may not be able to fit more than a flash anyhow.  Love that I can have such a powerful tool in such a small setup!

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[Guest JMF]

If you go for a 75mm, get the Summarit f2.5, the price you mentioned for a 75 Summicron is way above its used value AFAIK.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Stein K S]

My first Leica lens purchased late nineties was the 35 cron IV (as was a 35 as my ¨standard¨ lens on my first Canon way back in the mid seventies...) ;-). My second lens for the Leica came somewhat as a coincident as I got a unplannedgood offer on a new (from store) 50 Elmar-M also in silver. However, 35 and 50 being rather close, these two has become a natural part of almost all ¨sets¨ of lenses I might bring.

 

So a 50 could very well be my suggestion for your next lens ;-)... a 50 will always earn its place one way or the other in my experience.

 

Regards,

Edited August 9, 2019 by Stein K S