How do the Panasonic Lumix S cameras stack up for you?

[iiiNelson]

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Serious question from me... The cameras have piqued my interest since announcement but I can't seem to find a consensus opinion on it.

For reference, I primarily shoot Sony FE right now (I moved to it after being a M9 shooter nearly exclusively for 4-5 years because I didn't care for the M240). While it's excellent and I have no major issues with the system, I do find myself wanting a few things that they don't readily offer - most of all increased size and second of all a better JPEG engine for when I don't feel like editing. I've tried the new Nikon (didn't care for it and it feels like a step back from the Sony while pretty much being identical in size) and the new Canon (hated the body but loved excellent lenses sans 35 Macro) but they didn't do it for me personally.

 

I tried the Leica SL back in early 2016 at the Leica Store in DC. The zooms were great but aren't in the price range of what I'm willing to spend on lenses right now but the body was perhaps too simple for me which made it feel more complicated in a strange way. I'm extremelyinterested in the APO Summicron SL 35mm and 90mm though because the 35 Cron v5 was my favorite Leica M lens when I owned it. So this leads me to the S1/S1R... the bodies seem to have most of the improvements (read: "more complicated" features) that I desire, seemingly more comfortable ergonomics, and more reasonably priced zoom lenses... but the elephant in the room is lack of any hybrid PDAF system. I don't really see myself getting many Sigma lenses but they're an option too. They just generally aren't for me though I acknowledge their performance.

 

Has anyone come from a Sony FE or DSLR that can compare the performance objectively? It doesn't need to be class leading IMO but I don't want to fight it to work in critical moments either like say at a wedding or event.

[scott kirkpatrick]

You should take a look at Jono Slack's review of the S1 and it's current lenses.   He finds the 24-105 good and the 70-200 excellent on the S1 and others report that these lenses work well on the SL/CL. SLs are selling well below their new price now and the lines for the still hypothetical SL2 are very long.  The 75 and 90 SL APO Summicrons seem to be easily available, and the 35s are starting to appear, so the L-mount family seems to have a lot of options.  Jono's review singled out the AF of the Lumix S1 as a real step forward from his SL, and his intended use is weddings and events, where you might find the lighted buttons are nice.  But it's just a camera; lenses are what matters.  Like other deep menued cameras, if you customize all of its 18 programmable buttons to do something that is different then their defaults,  strange things will happen (or refuse to happen).  S1s are easy to find in major centers, so go try one. 

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[iiiNelson]

6 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

You should take a look at Jono Slack's review of the S1 and it's current lenses.   He finds the 24-105 good and the 70-200 excellent on the S1 and others report that these lenses work well on the SL/CL. SLs are selling well below their new price now and the lines for the still hypothetical SL2 are very long.  The 75 and 90 SL APO Summicrons seem to be easily available, and the 35s are starting to appear, so the L-mount family seems to have a lot of options.  Jono's review singled out the AF of the Lumix S1 as a real step forward from his SL, and his intended use is weddings and events, where you might find the lighted buttons are nice.  But it's just a camera; lenses are what matters.  Like other deep menued cameras, if you customize all of its 18 programmable buttons to do something that is different then their defaults,  strange things will happen (or refuse to happen).  S1s are easy to find in major centers, so go try one. 

Yeah the issue is my local camera store stopped carrying Panasonic last year. They push people to Fuji (heavily) or CaNikon. They reluctantly recommend Sony because I feel like they HAVE to now because of the success there. They also sell Olympus and Leica but not as much volume judging on how much their stock seems to rarely change. 

I dod read Jono’s excellent review and it confirmed what I’ve always though - there are some excellent L-Mount lenses. What it didn’t really clear up for me was how the AF compares in the S1 to its “natural peers” from Sony, Canon, and Nikon. He mentioned that he shot his tractor shots up to f/6.3 to ensure he got it in focus but I believe most modern cameras should be able to handle that without any issues. What it doesn’t fully flesh out for me is how well the camera performs with lenses set between f/1.4 - f/2. I guess the answer really is that I’ll have to just swallow the costs and rent the cameras as I’m not comfortable with purchasing and returning (if unhappy) without their being a product malfunction type issue. Nothing worse than buying something that’s supposed to be new and you discover it’s a store return sold as new. 

Mob and regarding the SL, it’s just not for me. I tried it but didn’t like the controls. I realize some love the “simplicity” but I found it to not be naturally logical for me but that’s why choice is good. It’s mostly a “ME” issue than it is the camera but that’s true with every camera and end user. It’s a good camera but I don’t see the value if going that route as I find the S1 I proved in nearly every meaningful way (on paper).

[ron777]

11 hours ago, iiiNelson said:

Serious question from me... The cameras have piqued my interest since announcement but I can't seem to find a consensus opinion on it.

For reference, I primarily shoot Sony FE right now (I moved to it after being a M9 shooter nearly exclusively for 4-5 years because I didn't care for the M240). While it's excellent and I have no major issues with the system, I do find myself wanting a few things that they don't readily offer - most of all increased size and second of all a better JPEG engine for when I don't feel like editing. I've tried the new Nikon (didn't care for it and it feels like a step back from the Sony while pretty much being identical in size) and the new Canon (hated the body but loved excellent lenses sans 35 Macro) but they didn't do it for me personally.

 

I tried the Leica SL back in early 2016 at the Leica Store in DC. The zooms were great but aren't in the price range of what I'm willing to spend on lenses right now but the body was perhaps too simple for me which made it feel more complicated in a strange way. I'm extremelyinterested in the APO Summicron SL 35mm and 90mm though because the 35 Cron v5 was my favorite Leica M lens when I owned it. So this leads me to the S1/S1R... the bodies seem to have most of the improvements (read: "more complicated" features) that I desire, seemingly more comfortable ergonomics, and more reasonably priced zoom lenses... but the elephant in the room is lack of any hybrid PDAF system. I don't really see myself getting many Sigma lenses but they're an option too. They just generally aren't for me though I acknowledge their performance.

 

Has anyone come from a Sony FE or DSLR that can compare the performance objectively? It doesn't need to be class leading IMO but I don't want to fight it to work in critical moments either like say at a wedding or event.

I own a Sony A7riii as well as a collection of GM lenses, and since acquiring the Panasonic S1R I have not touched the Sony. Why? The Sony’s ergonomics are , IMO, terrible, whereas the S1r’s is perfect for my hands, and the buttons all seem to be in the right place for easy and natural access. I have little occasion to use AFC so I cannot make a direct comparison for that feature. The Panasonic’s IQ is superb, either with SL or Lumix S glass.

[sillbeers15]

3 hours ago, iiiNelson said:

Yeah the issue is my local camera store stopped carrying Panasonic last year. They push people to Fuji (heavily) or CaNikon. They reluctantly recommend Sony because I feel like they HAVE to now because of the success there. They also sell Olympus and Leica but not as much volume judging on how much their stock seems to rarely change. 

I dod read Jono’s excellent review and it confirmed what I’ve always though - there are some excellent L-Mount lenses. What it didn’t really clear up for me was how the AF compares in the S1 to its “natural peers” from Sony, Canon, and Nikon. He mentioned that he shot his tractor shots up to f/6.3 to ensure he got it in focus but I believe most modern cameras should be able to handle that without any issues. What it doesn’t fully flesh out for me is how well the camera performs with lenses set between f/1.4 - f/2. I guess the answer really is that I’ll have to just swallow the costs and rent the cameras as I’m not comfortable with purchasing and returning (if unhappy) without their being a product malfunction type issue. Nothing worse than buying something that’s supposed to be new and you discover it’s a store return sold as new. 

Mob and regarding the SL, it’s just not for me. I tried it but didn’t like the controls. I realize some love the “simplicity” but I found it to not be naturally logical for me but that’s why choice is good. It’s mostly a “ME” issue than it is the camera but that’s true with every camera and end user. It’s a good camera but I don’t see the value if going that route as I find the S1 I proved in nearly every meaningful way (on paper).

I am a M user (since M8,..and now M10) and SL user (3+yrs before I sold it last weekend). I have been gathering user feedback on the S1R to determine if I should buy it or just wait for SL2 ( the performance of S1R will be very close to SL2 minus the wonderful minimalist buttons shown on SL and S Leicas.

Like you I specifically compare the AF performance of the S1R against commonly regarded good AF capability of the Sony A7Rlll.

However I am specific looking for AF tracking performance on Leica SL lenses only. I do so because I already have a good feel on what’s good and what’s not from using those lenses on my SL. So like I said earlier I’m looking for improvements on AF tracking especially on 90-280 VE. I did not find any let down in AF performance on the rest of my SL lenses using them on my SL. I am especially satisfied with the Face recognition on SL when it comes to AF performance.

A word of caution on judging AF performance of 3rd party non L mount developed lenses on Panasonic developed DFD AF ( for Lumix & Leicas). Due to the lack of lens specific data stored in cameras, the AF performance will certainly be slow and it will hunt ( character of CDAF before algorithm enhancement).

Read reviews and feedback with a pinch of salt. Judge if author is firstly familiar with camera. Handling a camera for a few hours and write a review will certainly vary from a Long term test of spending a few weeks in minimum to understand and learn the camera. Follow by looking at the type of pictures the author poses to determine if your questions on the camera is well experienced and articulated by author. I specifically hate those writers who take a few shots of non moving objects and slap on a general comment that says ‘look elsewhere for sports and action photography as a lack of PDAF’. These guys are just plain lazy and add no value in writing that.

In judging AF performance reviews, I prefer looking into YouTube vids that compare S1R over A7Rlll for stills. You will find the performance of stills AF tracking of S1R performing on par against A7Rlll in a few reviews after firmware 1.0. To me comments are subjective and ‘what you see’ is objective.

Happy searching.

[iiiNelson]

3 hours ago, ron777 said:

I own a Sony A7riii as well as a collection of GM lenses, and since acquiring the Panasonic S1R I have not touched the Sony. Why? The Sony’s ergonomics are , IMO, terrible, whereas the S1r’s is perfect for my hands, and the buttons all seem to be in the right place for easy and natural access. I have little occasion to use AFC so I cannot make a direct comparison for that feature. The Panasonic’s IQ is superb, either with SL or Lumix S glass.

Yeah, the Sony cameras are usable for me but I also keep a grip attached pretty much at all times on mine which negates any weight disadvantage that the LUMIX S may possess. AFC is pretty important for me because I want the tracking accuracy to be there even though I generally only shoot a single frame at a time. 

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I am a M user (since M8,..and now M10) and SL user (3+yrs before I sold it last weekend). I have been gathering user feedback on the S1R to determine if I should buy it or just wait for SL2 ( the performance of S1R will be very close to SL2 minus the wonderful minimalist buttons shown on SL and S Leicas.

Like you I specifically compare the AF performance of the S1R against commonly regarded good AF capability of the Sony A7Rlll.

However I am specific looking for AF tracking performance on Leica SL lenses only. I do so because I already have a good feel on what’s good and what’s not from using those lenses on my SL. So like I said earlier I’m looking for improvements on AF tracking especially on 90-280 VE. I did not find any let down in AF performance on the rest of my SL lenses using them on my SL. I am especially satisfied with the Face recognition on SL when it comes to AF performance.

A word of caution on judging AF performance of 3rd party non L mount developed lenses on Panasonic developed DFD AF ( for Lumix & Leicas). Due to the lack of lens specific data stored in cameras, the AF performance will certainly be slow and it will hunt ( character of CDAF before algorithm enhancement).

Read reviews and feedback with a pinch of salt. Judge if author is firstly familiar with camera. Handling a camera for a few hours and write a review will certainly vary from a Long term test of spending a few weeks in minimum to understand and learn the camera. Follow by looking at the type of pictures the author poses to determine if your questions on the camera is well experienced and articulated by author. I specifically hate those writers who take a few shots of non moving objects and slap on a general comment that says ‘look elsewhere for sports and action photography as a lack of PDAF’. These guys are just plain lazy and add no value in writing that.

In judging AF performance reviews, I prefer looking into YouTube vids that compare S1R over A7Rlll for stills. You will find the performance of stills AF tracking of S1R performing on par against A7Rlll in a few reviews after firmware 1.0. To me comments are subjective and ‘what you see’ is objective.

Happy searching.

I largely agree with you. I generally dismiss any full-on review that was conducted within a week of camera release assuming they didn’t have a prototype they worked with months prior to launch. That’s one of my issues - there are plenty of reviews between April 2-10th and I doubt there was enough time to properly and fully evaluate unless the goal is to write a rolling review.

Like you, I probably have zero plans to adapt non native lenses unless I plan on manually focusing them nearly exclusively. I’ve done it before with mixed results if depending on AF. I think this gave early Sony cameras bad names where people never once tried some of the excellent native lenses. I can manually focus pretty quickly so it’s not a big deal to do on any modern mirrorless. I’ve watched many Youtube videos and they’re all over the place because people have different levels of acceptable. Again the Leica SL/SL2 will likely be a non-starter because I like the discrete direct controls that the Panasonic makes available so it’s the only L-Mount series of bodies that I’m currently considering... and as far as the Leica branded lenses I’m really only looking at specific Leica L-Mount primes. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by iiiNelson

[ron777]

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On 8/3/2019 at 9:09 AM, iiiNelson said:

Serious question from me... The cameras have piqued my interest since announcement but I can't seem to find a consensus opinion on it.

For reference, I primarily shoot Sony FE right now (I moved to it after being a M9 shooter nearly exclusively for 4-5 years because I didn't care for the M240). While it's excellent and I have no major issues with the system, I do find myself wanting a few things that they don't readily offer - most of all increased size and second of all a better JPEG engine for when I don't feel like editing. I've tried the new Nikon (didn't care for it and it feels like a step back from the Sony while pretty much being identical in size) and the new Canon (hated the body but loved excellent lenses sans 35 Macro) but they didn't do it for me personally.

 

I tried the Leica SL back in early 2016 at the Leica Store in DC. The zooms were great but aren't in the price range of what I'm willing to spend on lenses right now but the body was perhaps too simple for me which made it feel more complicated in a strange way. I'm extremelyinterested in the APO Summicron SL 35mm and 90mm though because the 35 Cron v5 was my favorite Leica M lens when I owned it. So this leads me to the S1/S1R... the bodies seem to have most of the improvements (read: "more complicated" features) that I desire, seemingly more comfortable ergonomics, and more reasonably priced zoom lenses... but the elephant in the room is lack of any hybrid PDAF system. I don't really see myself getting many Sigma lenses but they're an option too. They just generally aren't for me though I acknowledge their performance.

 

Has anyone come from a Sony FE or DSLR that can compare the performance objectively? It doesn't need to be class leading IMO but I don't want to fight it to work in critical moments either like say at a wedding or event.

My initial response had been entered via cellphone, thus, the limited nature of the post.

I have the battery grip permanently attached to my A7rIII, without it the camera would be virtually useless for me.  But in addition to what I've already mentioned, there are other differences.  Despite the Sony PR touting the effectiveness of its IBIS, Panasonic's is visually and functionally much better.  I am a fan of back button focus, which is easily achieved on the S1/S1r but not so much with the Sony.  I don't normally have any use for JPG's, other than for LCD preview and archiving, but the out of camera color, to my eyes, is better in re Panasonic.  Like you, I am not a fan of the Leica SL's, or Hasselblad's simplistic button layout, and it is one of the many reasons that I'd sold mine (Leica SL and X1d), but it's their philosophy and you either subscribe to it or not.  I prefer the dedicated actuator approach of both Sony and Panasonic, but on the Sony everything is cramped together, whereas, on the S1/S1r my fingers seem to naturally fall upon the required button.  And lastly, the S cameras allow the employment of my Leica SL lenses, as well as the very fine Panasonic offerings and perhaps others.

The soon to be released Sony A7r IV appears to have the same body, albeit, with a slightly more prominent grip.   I'm not going to drink another glass of their Kool Aid, and if I could negotiate a reasonable dollar amount for my Sony setup I would sell it in a flash.

Edited August 4, 2019 by ron777

[iiiNelson]

15 hours ago, ron777 said:

My initial response had been entered via cellphone, thus, the limited nature of the post.

I have the battery grip permanently attached to my A7rIII, without it the camera would be virtually useless for me.  But in addition to what I've already mentioned, there are other differences.  Despite the Sony PR touting the effectiveness of its IBIS, Panasonic's is visually and functionally much better.  I am a fan of back button focus, which is easily achieved on the S1/S1r but not so much with the Sony.  I don't normally have any use for JPG's, other than for LCD preview and archiving, but the out of camera color, to my eyes, is better in re Panasonic.  Like you, I am not a fan of the Leica SL's, or Hasselblad's simplistic button layout, and it is one of the many reasons that I'd sold mine (Leica SL and X1d), but it's their philosophy and you either subscribe to it or not.  I prefer the dedicated actuator approach of both Sony and Panasonic, but on the Sony everything is cramped together, whereas, on the S1/S1r my fingers seem to naturally fall upon the required button.  And lastly, the S cameras allow the employment of my Leica SL lenses, as well as the very fine Panasonic offerings and perhaps others.

The soon to be released Sony A7r IV appears to have the same body, albeit, with a slightly more prominent grip.   I'm not going to drink another glass of their Kool Aid, and if I could negotiate a reasonable dollar amount for my Sony setup I would sell it in a flash.

I was on a phone as well but now I'm at my computer.

With certain lenses like the excellent 55/1.8, the Sony is fine for me. The issue is when I have a Sony Zeiss or G-Master attached. It's workable with the grip (I shot several weddings last year with the A7RII and 70-200/22.8 GM) but it's not always ideal for 10+ hours of real-world shooting. I generally fall in the "there aren't many bad cameras, there are just photographers that can't adapt to all systems" camp so I realize all opinions are subjective... as such I haven't touched a Nikon that I loved (though the Df was close to pulling me in) and I am indifferent towards Olympus in general. I've owned and used Panasonic since the G1 which replaced my old Canon 20D. I "get" Panasonic and it sorta lead me to Leica in the first place... so there's that. I too am usually a RAW only shooter but on vacation there's nothing wrong with JPEG for family and travel snaps as a back-up to send to family/friends back home through social media or group text chats at the end of a day of sightseeing. For me Sony cameras are extremely color accurate but that doesn't equate to being aestetically pleasing in all situations. I don't mind button simplicity on a M... on a mirrorless I like robust and direct controls like you mentioned as well. I have large hands but nearly 6 years of FF Sony FE makes usage passable but that doesn't mean I don't desire improved ergonomics. I think the Fuji XH1 is one of the most comfortable cameras I've ever held but I don't trust their reliability. I probably won't buy any Leica S lenses... Just L-Mount and perhaps the occasional vintage lens for specific look/character. 

Bottom line is that I still use Generation 1 and 2 Sony FE bodies until I see a legitimate reason to upgrade without serious compromises. Until I am certain the Panasonic can supplant the Sony I plan to keep a Sony kit "for work" and the Panasonic for personal... unless it can do it all without reservation. I may even just get the Tamron trio of lenses for Sony and have that be my work kit while getting a Panasonic with the Leica APO 35 & 90 Cron. If performance meets or exceeds my expectation I don't see why I couldn't do most things with the existing Panasonic lenses.

Again thank you everyone for the feedback. I appreciate it all. I'd love to be able to consolidate my digital systems to just L-Mount and Micro 4/3 though for sure.

[sillbeers15]

The review below give you an objective view to decide for yourself on the performance comparison between Pana S1R vs Son A7Rlll.

 

[iiiNelson]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

The review below give you an objective view to decide for yourself on the performance comparison between Pana S1R vs Son A7Rlll.

 

I actually saw that one. The conclusion sort of didn’t match what I thought they’d say but maybe it’s the way they did the edit in post. 

[sillbeers15]

57 minutes ago, iiiNelson said:

I actually saw that one. The conclusion sort of didn’t match what I thought they’d say but maybe it’s the way they did the edit in post. 

I was not keen to hear their comments but rather watched the stills continuous AF shoots side by side comparison between S1R vs A7Rlll over and over again over detail comparisons. I noticed that the below forehead eye area of the subject taken by the Panasonic S1R taken shots seemed kind of under exposure (not certain if that under exposure can have a bearing on the AF success rate?)  despite the AF success rate on par to slightly better than A7Rlll. So the Sony itself does not deliver perfect 100% eye infocus on every frame. A couple frames were rather soft about The Eye area. My conclusion is to consider the stills AF tracking capability on par on both camera. Hopefully I have not missed something critical.

I have also seen on Flickr, shots of geese taking off and landing shots from S1R users with good frame by frame SF success rate that boost my confidence on the AF tracking ( for stills are my concern and not video AF tracking which saw tremendous improvements after firmware 1.2 update) of the S1R.

As for me, the holdback on S1R purchase are below:

1.  Only IBIS works when Leica SL lenses are applied. The OIS will be critical on 90-280mm for me as I only handheld it;

2.  The 3rd party flash & off camera wireless triggers compatible with full HSS & TTL is limited to Elinchrome & Godox for the moment;

3.  I sense that the announcement for the SL2 should be round the corner. Good chance to be Sep/Oct 2019.

Edited August 6, 2019 by sillbeers15

[iiiNelson]

4 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I was not keen to hear their comments but rather watched the stills continuous AF shoots side by side comparison between S1R vs A7Rlll over and over again over detail comparisons. I noticed that the below forehead eye area of the Panasonic seemed kind of under exposure (not certain if that under exposure can have a bearing on the AF success rate?)  despite the AF success rate on par to slightly better than A7Rlll. So the Sony itself does not deliver perfect 100% eye infocus on every frame. A couple frames were rather soft about The Eye area. My conclusion is to consider the stills AF tracking capability on par on both camera. Hopefully I have not missed something critical.

I have also seen on Flickr, shots of geese taking off and landing shots from S1R users with good frame by frame SF success rate that boost my confidence on the AF tracking ( for stills are my concern and not video AF tracking which saw tremendous improvements after firmware 1.2 update) of the S1R.

As for me, the holdback on S1R purchase are below:

1.  Only IBIS works when Leica SL lenses are applied. The OIS will be critical on 90-280mm for me as I only handheld it;

2.  The 3rd party flash & off camera wireless triggers compatible with full HSS & TTL is limited to Elinchrome & Godox for the moment;

3.  I sense that the announcement for the SL2 should be round the corner. Good chance to be Sep/Oct 2019.

Yeah the A7RIII is a step back in AF from say the A9 or A7III even. Still is an excellent camera and I was surprised to see that they didn’t go all the way on the AF improvements with the newest one. 

Do the Leica SL lenses not have OIS or is it because Dual IS 2 is proprietary to Panasonic? I hope they don’t have the same issues Micro 4/3 has with niggling incompatibility of certain features. Hopefully they patch the shortcomings in firmware but I’m not happy to hear of possible incompatibility (even though I have no intentions of buying Leica zooms).

[sillbeers15]

The SL lenses 24-90, 90-280 ( unsure about the SL50 Lux) do come with OIS which is a shame that it does not work on S1R.

I hope the SL2 comes with IBIS, so for the above said lenses there will be OIS + IBIS up to 6 stops.

[thighslapper]

9 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

The SL lenses 24-90, 90-280 ( unsure about the SL50 Lux) do come with OIS which is a shame that it does not work on S1R.

I hope the SL2 comes with IBIS, so for the above said lenses there will be OIS + IBIS up to 6 stops.

???? 

Combined OIS and IBIS only adds an extra stop ...... IBIS with the 24-90 or 90-280 now gives you up to 5.5 stops advantage whereas the native lens OIS in real life manages a lot less. I have IBIS switched on permanently with all the lenses I use as it is so much more effective. 

Leica have a tendency to keep things simple so I'm not sure they will go the extra mile to implement combined OIS+IBIS ..... unless they have done a deal with Panasonic and import the firmware direct. They have been playing catch-up with the software side of photography for years and the statements that 'Maestro2' is powerful enough does not fill me with confidence when it comes to highly processor dependent features like tracking AF and stabilisation.....

Edited August 6, 2019 by thighslapper

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, iiiNelson said:

Do the Leica SL lenses not have OIS or is it because Dual IS 2 is proprietary to Panasonic? I hope they don’t have the same issues Micro 4/3 has with niggling incompatibility of certain features. Hopefully they patch the shortcomings in firmware but I’m not happy to hear of possible incompatibility (even though I have no intentions of buying Leica zooms).

I suspect DUAL IS for Leica lenses requires lens specific firmware updates ...... so the ball is in Leica's court as to whether they want to implement it. 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

???? 

Combined OIS and IBIS only adds an extra stop ...... IBIS with the 24-90 or 90-280 now gives you up to 5.5 stops advantage whereas the native lens OIS in real life manages a lot less. I have IBIS switched on permanently with all the lenses I use as it is so much more effective. 

Leica have tendency to keep things simple so I'm not sure they will go the extra mile to implement combined OIS+IBIS ..... unless they have done a deal with Panasonic and import the firmware direct. They have been playing catch-up with the software side of photography for years and the statements that 'Maestro2' is powerful enough does not fill me with confidence when it comes to highly processor dependent features like tracking AF and stabilisation.....

Thanks for the info. It is indeed helpful to learn from Hirst hand user experience.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Guys, there seem to be some misconceptions and wrong information echoing about in this thread.  As far as I know, the OIS in Leica's SL lenses does work on the S1R and S1.  I've tried it with the 90-280, and I'll try it again if it needs careful confirmation.  (Example below)  Unfortunately the numbers that get thrown around -- this way it's 5 stops, but add that other feature and it is 5.5... are confusing everyone.  Just because adding OIS to IBIS takes the claimed power of stabilization up half a stop doesn't mean that OIS by itself is only worth half a stop.  OIS corrects for where you are pointing a lens.  It can't correct for rotating the camera, but it is more powerful for a long lens than IBIS.  IBIS is limited in the movement it can give to the sensor, which is a small fraction of its dimensions in any directions.  This is something that you have to try yourself in a scenario that makes sense to you.  If you want to take pictures of scary rocks while standing on the muddy top of a high cliff in the screaming wind and fog at sunset, and you have a tripod, OIS ought to cover the situation.  If you are crazy enough to try it handheld and in the water, perhaps IBIS + OIS is necessary.

If your objective is partly to feel that you have obtained the best solution, lens, camera and stabilization overall that is currently available, I would hope that the SL2 has IBIS as Leica will surely integrate it with their existing OIS, and will know how to properly sort out what each subsystem should be doing. 

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P1000556 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr S1R with Leica 90-280@279mm

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

The previous cat picture turns out, on review of the camera settings, to have been shot with body IBIS.  Here's one shot with lens OIS at a slightly greater distance:

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P1000742 1 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr S1R SL 90-280@280 f/4.0 1/6 sec

It's not quite as sharp, was shot at a greater distance (and cropped a bit), so how to compare the two?  Also, there is luck involved.  I got consistently sharp pictures only at 1/60 sec with a tree still further away as my target.  So I picked a tree with rough bark about 50 m away, and shot the same area with no IS, IBIS and OIS to see at what shutter speed the bark was sharply resolved in the developed JPEG image at actual size (1 screen pixel per image pixel).  I was standing, not braced, elbows out aiming up at about a 45 degree angle.  Pretty much worst case.  I could consistently get sharp bark at 1/400 sec and 280 mm focal length with no IS.  I got one sharp image at 1/100 sec but couldn't do it consistently.  With IBIS I got fairly consistent sharp bark at 1/50 sec and with OIS only (on the S1R) the bark stayed sharp at 1/100 sec.  That's just one situation, but the extra exposure permitted by the stabilization was 3 stops for IBIS and 2 stops for OIS. 

[jonoslack]

On 8/3/2019 at 10:48 PM, iiiNelson said:

 

I dod read Jono’s excellent review and it confirmed what I’ve always though - there are some excellent L-Mount lenses. What it didn’t really clear up for me was how the AF compares in the S1 to its “natural peers” from Sony, Canon, and Nikon. He mentioned that he shot his tractor shots up to f/6.3 to ensure he got it in focus but I believe most modern cameras should be able to handle that without any issues.

Hi There

Nice to see you here - I hope you're flourishing!

Sorry not to clear up the AF issue - my problem is that I don't have those Nikon / Sony and Canon cameras knocking about to do a comparison!

As for the tractor shoot - the problem was that they were moving fast (15mph may not seem like much, but it's quite a lot at 6 ft!). 

For event and wedding stuff, I think the AF on the S1 (didn't try the S1R) does really well, eye focus and all, right down to f2 for Leica primes and f1.4 for the Panasonic prime. The only problem I found is that the embedded jpg is too small to check critical focus, so you pretty much have to shoot RAW+jpg if you want to check whether images are sharp in camera. 

Thanks to thighslapper and Scott in IBIS information. 

As you say . . I think you're going to have to hire one, but I'd guess you'll love the buttons and controls after the Sony, and the SL summicron primes are just wonderful!±

Thanks Scott for the heads up to this post. 

best

Jono

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jrp]

I agree.  The SL Summicrons do cost the price of a small car, but body do they deliver.  I spent a long time with Nikon lenses, which were find stopped down, when the subject matter did the heavy lifting of making the photo interesting.  The Leica lenses are surprisingly sharp from wide open, and the rapid contrast fall off helps to make images "pop".  All this seems to be by design, rather than accident, so it's great that it works as the designer indended, despite the rather muted advertising (since they can't seem to build adequate supply of the lenses, hence the price).