My M6 TTL viewfinder sucks

[jdpafundi]

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3 hours ago, wattsy said:

Yes, there does seem to be a lot of exaggeration going on here. My first Leica was an M6TTL 0.58x and I think I owned two more M6TTL bodies slightly later on (not sure why I felt I needed so many cameras but they were 'only' £1400 new so it was a different ballgame to the £5,000+ bodies of today) and they were all excellent cameras. It is true that the focussing patch can white out but it really isn't a big deal and I have never felt that the M7 and MP bodies I have subsequently owned have a greatly superior viewfinder. I was lent an M6TTL 0.58 by Leica only a couple of years ago whilst they repaired an M-A and I enjoyed using it. It was a perfectly adequate replacement camera (in fact, I was reminded how useful the lower magnification VF can be when you mainly use a 28mm lens).

Check the link to the video I posted. It's a HUGE difference between my friends Classic and my TTL. 

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[jdpafundi]

2 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Get one with the MP finder update installed and the DX reader update installed. Just to save the nerves of some canine here ... I think it is SN > 2885xxx - but better google it to be sure.

That's what Im wondering because I did the MP finder update to my TTL and it did not help much at all. So later models from that serial you posted of M7s would be the way to go is what you're saying?

[Photon42]

11 hours ago, jdpafundi said:

That's what Im wondering because I did the MP finder update to my TTL and it did not help much at all. So later models from that serial you posted of M7s would be the way to go is what you're saying?

There is a serial number, after which M7 cameras did receive the update during production. IIRC it is 2885xxx. Of course the respective owner could have ordered the update as well. Then there are finders with different magnification: 0.58, 0.72 and 0.85. In theory the 0.85 should flare the most - I am owning an M7 with a 0.85 finder bought new in 2013 and do not notice any more flare than with my MP. There is a lot of fuzz about the MP about minimalism and professionalism. In my eyes the M7 is actually the best film M Leica to date. Think of an M10-D with film. Carry two additional Lithium cells  and you will be fine. These cells last 10 years and are much smaller than any battery for digital cameras.

[Photon42]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:54 PM, jaapv said:

Yes, that is correct. The problem with the viewfinder was with the M6TTL,not the M6. 

I used to own one from new. IMO it is the worst M ever made. No use blaming Youxin. 

AFAIK the problem lies in skimping on the design of the viewfinder by leaving out one lens element compared to the M6 Classic, not in the coating. 

 

11 hours ago, jdpafundi said:

That's what Im wondering because I did the MP finder update to my TTL and it did not help much at all. So later models from that serial you posted of M7s would be the way to go is what you're saying?

Re-read Jaap's post.

[Matlock]

4 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

There is a serial number, after which M7 cameras did receive the update during production. IIRC it is 2885xxx. Of course the respective owner could have ordered the update as well. Then there are finders with different magnification: 0.58, 0.72 and 0.85. In theory the 0.85 should flare the most - I am owning an M7 with a 0.85 finder bought new in 2013 and do not notice any more flare than with my MP. There is a lot of fuzz about the MP about minimalism and professionalism. In my eyes the M7 is actually the best film M Leica to date. Think of an M10-D with film. Carry two additional Lithium cells  and you will be fine. These cells last 10 years and are much smaller than any battery for digital cameras.

Fully agree with all of that. My M7 and M10-d are about my most used cameras (and my M7 is an early one), the M10-D viewfinder is markedly superior but the M7 is fine

. However a lot of the sort of comments are common to most forums, in other words, don't say anything unless you have something to moan about.

[lykaman]

Surely instead of all the hassle - SELL

[jdpafundi]

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7 hours ago, Photon42 said:

There is a serial number, after which M7 cameras did receive the update during production. IIRC it is 2885xxx. Of course the respective owner could have ordered the update as well. Then there are finders with different magnification: 0.58, 0.72 and 0.85. In theory the 0.85 should flare the most - I am owning an M7 with a 0.85 finder bought new in 2013 and do not notice any more flare than with my MP. There is a lot of fuzz about the MP about minimalism and professionalism. In my eyes the M7 is actually the best film M Leica to date. Think of an M10-D with film. Carry two additional Lithium cells  and you will be fine. These cells last 10 years and are much smaller than any battery for digital cameras.

Awesome. I think the M7 is what I'm looking for. The bigger shutter speed dial and better flare resistance with the VF upgrade. Thank you.

[TomB_tx]

But if you find a Zeiss Ikon ZM (Leica M mount) - it has the best VF/RF i have found - and aperture preferred auto exposure like the M7. Yes my Upgraded M6 finder is an improvement, but the Zeiss is better yet. 

[Photon42]

The ZM is prone to imprecise alignment of the eye (sudden “white-out” of the rangefinder patch). It is of course very much usable, but the OP seems to have a weak spot for viewfinder issues. Not to mention serviceability over the years. I would still go for an M7 with updates installed. Haptics are better, too.

[jdpafundi]

2 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

The ZM is prone to imprecise alignment of the eye (sudden “white-out” of the rangefinder patch). It is of course very much usable, but the OP seems to have a weak spot for viewfinder issues. Not to mention serviceability over the years. I would still go for an M7 with updates installed. Haptics are better, too.

This is what I'm thinking. What do you mean by haptics are better?

[Photon42]

55 minutes ago, jdpafundi said:

This is what I'm thinking. What do you mean by haptics are better?

The Leica feels less hollow and better built overall

[TomB_tx]

I agree an M feels more solid and fits the hands differently than the ZM, but for my old eyes the ZM became my favorite RF to use - after over 50 years of owning and shooting Leica M models!

[philipus]

Hi

Perhaps I'm a bit late to this. I have an M6TTL which suffered badly from whiteout, so much so that it was pretty useless in many situations. I had the MP viewfinder upgrade done by Leica. I wrote about it here in case it is of assistance. Basically there are different ways to do it. With the full upgrade my TTL never flares and I am very happy about that because it's a terrific camera.

Philip

 

On 6/23/2019 at 9:12 PM, jdpafundi said:

I borrowed my friend's M6 classic with the MP viewfinder upgrade done by Youxin Ye for a few weeks before buying my own and it was downright awesome. Super bright, no glare or flare and so easy to focus. I then bought my own M6 TTL and immediately sent it to Youxin for the same exact upgrade. Got it back, used it for a few weeks and frankly, I've noticed no difference at all compared to the stock M6 viewfinder. To make sure I wasn't going crazy, I went to my friends place and did an exact comparison test between my TTL and his classic. Put the cameras on the same tripod, at the exact same angle looked and shot video through the viewfinder to compare them. Basically, my friend's Classic is perfect and mine sucks. Here is the video comparison to see the difference: https://imgur.com/a/beAp2H4. 

Youxin has been of no help and downright defensive. Refusing to even take mine back to look at it (I begged him) because there's no way he could have installed the upgrade incorrectly and I should talk to Leica and perhaps the Classic has better coating. Anyway, my question is has anyone with an M6 TTL done this upgrade and still noticed bad glare? How is it possible that an M6 Classic has better coating than a later model M6 TTL? I'm baffled but mostly just wanted this figured out. Thanks for your help.

Edited July 1, 2019 by philipus

[jdpafundi]

8 hours ago, philipus said:

Hi

Perhaps I'm a bit late to this. I have an M6TTL which suffered badly from whiteout, so much so that it was pretty useless in many situations. I had the MP viewfinder upgrade done by Leica. I wrote about it here in case it is of assistance. Basically there are different ways to do it. With the full upgrade my TTL never flares and I am very happy about that because it's a terrific camera.

Philip

 

Hey Philip. Yes, I'm convinced the reason my TTL viewfinder only got marginally better is because of the lack of condenser lens piece. Did you have Leica add that in? I'm seriously considering it.

[pico]

This works well on both my early M7s. YMMV

Edited July 1, 2019 by pico

[250swb]

9 hours ago, pico said:

This works well on both my early M7s. YMMV

It does work well pico, I've used one and flare is reduced and would recommend it. But I'd also recommend moving your weight from one leg to the other because that is often all that is needed to avoid focus patch flare, and what also works is shifting the focus to something else before recomposing. Focus patch flare is only a major problem if you stand stock still and say 'nope, it's not me that's moving, I'd rather spend hundreds of dollars than shift myself one inch'. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by 250swb

[wlaidlaw]

I have use Rik Plomp's SHADE on a few of my M's, notably my M4-P which was very prone to flare and my M7. Yes they work well but the self-adhesive is very feeble and they tend to drop off in hot weather. I have lost one of the two I have and the other one is sitting in my tin of small photo bits and screws, as it has lost its "stick". I now use a small rectangle cut from a sheet of polarising polycarbonate, that I buy from a UK supplier of motorcycle visors. I make it slightly bigger than the frame illumination prismatic window and hold it in place with Blu-Tak. I bought this material to replace the very scratched original lenses on my 1920's vintage French linen flying cap, which has built in goggles, for when I am driving my Three Wheeler Morgan, that has no windscreen, only small aero screens. This works just as well as the SHADE.

When it was looking like my M7 was irreparable, I was looking around for a black 0.85 M7, which seemed to be quite rare. If you get a late one with the MP mod, this is very nearly as good as my SS M3 - progress - not a lot! The only downside of the 0.85 is that the 28mm frame is in effect invisible but I have a SLOOZ 28mm VF to use with my LTM 28 Summaron which I could have used on a 0.85 M7. As it is, in the end my 0.72 M7 has been repaired. 

Wilson

[philipus]

Yes I had it done and it made a universe of a difference. It was definitely worth it for me, esp. in light of the fact that ultimate price difference was not enormous.

I had lengthy discussions with Wil van Manen here in the Netherlands who could only carry out the simpler fix, similar it seems to what Youxin does as I understand it, and he was quite clear that that fix is not a complete solution. My TTL now never flares.

Good luck

Philip

On 7/1/2019 at 8:07 PM, jdpafundi said:

Hey Philip. Yes, I'm convinced the reason my TTL viewfinder only got marginally better is because of the lack of condenser lens piece. Did you have Leica add that in? I'm seriously considering it.

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[a.noctilux]

I used to have MP finder on my MP x0.85 but not now (sold it years ago).

I keep my M6 Classic x0.85 and sometimes it 's finder, when lighting is "not right ", has that famous white out .

Someone toll me "just turn the M6 portrait position" focus and return to horizontal to take the photo.

 

Now when I use the M6 x0.85, mainly with the Summilux-M 75mm or Noctilux, I tend to take "portrait" with camera position "naturally in portrait" : problem solved 😇.

[Jeff S]

I use DAG (Don Goldberg) for my third party Leica repairs.  Sherry Krauter also does good work on film Ms.  Best to call in advance to discuss options, price, turnaround estimate, etc.

Jeff