jdpafundi Posted June 23, 2019 Share #1 Posted June 23, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I borrowed my friend's M6 classic with the MP viewfinder upgrade done by Youxin Ye for a few weeks before buying my own and it was downright awesome. Super bright, no glare or flare and so easy to focus. I then bought my own M6 TTL and immediately sent it to Youxin for the same exact upgrade. Got it back, used it for a few weeks and frankly, I've noticed no difference at all compared to the stock M6 viewfinder. To make sure I wasn't going crazy, I went to my friends place and did an exact comparison test between my TTL and his classic. Put the cameras on the same tripod, at the exact same angle looked and shot video through the viewfinder to compare them. Basically, my friend's Classic is perfect and mine sucks. Here is the video comparison to see the difference: https://imgur.com/a/beAp2H4. Youxin has been of no help and downright defensive. Refusing to even take mine back to look at it (I begged him) because there's no way he could have installed the upgrade incorrectly and I should talk to Leica and perhaps the Classic has better coating. Anyway, my question is has anyone with an M6 TTL done this upgrade and still noticed bad glare? How is it possible that an M6 Classic has better coating than a later model M6 TTL? I'm baffled but mostly just wanted this figured out. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 Hi jdpafundi, Take a look here My M6 TTL viewfinder sucks. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 23, 2019 Share #2 Posted June 23, 2019 Yes, that is correct. The problem with the viewfinder was with the M6TTL,not the M6. I used to own one from new. IMO it is the worst M ever made. No use blaming Youxin. AFAIK the problem lies in skimping on the design of the viewfinder by leaving out one lens element compared to the M6 Classic, not in the coating. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted June 23, 2019 Share #3 Posted June 23, 2019 I've never had a complaint about Youxin - he has always done good work for me. However, I've never had an M6TTL either, as I've had my M6 since 1985, and the later TTL version had nothing of use for me. I was always happy with the normal M6 VF, although I did notice the patch flare on occasion compared to the M4 I've used since 1968. Yet a few years ago I had DAG put in the "flare fix" mod and change to the newer multicoated windows. Although DAG didn't think the multicoated window was worth the cost, I've been extremely pleased with the result. Before that it was Youxin that suggested the multicoat upgrade, but when I wanted it done Youxin was backlogged and DAG had the time to do it. Since I'm not familiar with the M6TTL I'll defer to Jaap's conclusion that it is that model that is the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 23, 2019 Share #4 Posted June 23, 2019 After selling my early (1983) M6 at the turn of the century as I got tired of waiting for Leica to go digital, I soon bought an M6TTL out of regret. It was OK with the Leicagoodies polarizing foil on the viewfinder window, but it still flared far too easily. I didn't like the dimensions either. When I found a new-old-stock last series M6 Classic, I was happy to return to the better camera. Yes, even here the viewfinder can flare - an M4 it is not-, albeit rarely, but it is much better Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilm3 Posted June 24, 2019 Share #5 Posted June 24, 2019 Youxin Ye did a CLA and updated the finder on my M6, Classic, not TTL. Smooth and quiet, and the finder is a worthwhile upgrade, in my opinion. YY has worked on my M3 also and two lenses. Great work every time. Over the years, I have had work done by several technicians including Leica Solms. Youxin is my preferred tech. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2019 Share #6 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) There should be some kind of skeptical banner for first time posts of nothing but complaints like jdpafundi's. Edited June 24, 2019 by pico 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lykaman Posted June 24, 2019 Share #7 Posted June 24, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 18 minutes ago, pico said: There should be some kind of skeptical banner for first time posts of nothing but complaints like jdpafundi's. Give him a break! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2019 Share #8 Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, lykaman said: Give him a break! Nope Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lykaman Posted June 24, 2019 Share #9 Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, pico said: Nope As You wish Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdpafundi Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share #10 Posted June 24, 2019 Well, this was truly helpful. I guess the TTL is the issue, which is a bummer because I love the bigger shutter speed dial and updated metering display in the VF. Now I have to figure out what I'd rather have going forward.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2019 Share #11 Posted June 24, 2019 M7? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 24, 2019 Share #12 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, jdpafundi said: Well, this was truly helpful. I guess the TTL is the issue, which is a bummer because I love the bigger shutter speed dial and updated metering display in the VF. Now I have to figure out what I'd rather have going forward.. Maybe you should figure out an apology to Youxin for your hysterical headline? Edited June 24, 2019 by 250swb 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2019 Share #13 Posted June 24, 2019 Better if a moderator tones it down 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdpafundi Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share #14 Posted June 24, 2019 7 hours ago, jaapv said: M7? Is the M7 the same coating as the M6 Classic? So I could have the bigger shutter speed dial + better VF upgrade? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2019 Share #15 Posted June 24, 2019 I have never owned one, but I understand that the viewfinder problems of the M6TTL do not occur in the same intensity on the M7, beginning after production year 2003. An owner might come in to confirm. Allegedly Leica replaced the viewfinder by the MP one in that year. However, an MP might be even better. I would go for a better viewfinder and forget about the upgrade. In my experience there is no real need for it. The problem has very little to do with coating - after all, the M3 through M6 have no problems, with simpler coatings - but with the total optical design of the viewfinder. The M6TTL was produced in a bad period for Leica with little or no cash in hand, so the design was skimped. As the M6 classic has a zinc top plate, instead of brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted June 24, 2019 Share #16 Posted June 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, jaapv said: I have never owned one, but I understand that the viewfinder problems of the M6TTL do not occur in the same intensity on the M7, beginning after production year 2003. An owner might come in to confirm. Allegedly Leica replaced the viewfinder by the MP one in that year. However, an MP might be even better. I would go for a better viewfinder and forget about the upgrade. In my experience there is no real need for it. The problem has very little to do with coating - after all, the M3 through M6 have no problems, with simpler coatings - but with the total optical design of the viewfinder. The M6TTL was produced in a bad period for Leica with little or no cash in hand, so the design was skimped. As the M6 classic has a zinc top plate, instead of brass. Interesting. I have an M6TTL, an M7 and an MP and find very little difference between them. (I also have, and use, an M3 and M2). The only M that has a significantly superior viewfinder is my M10-D. Of course YMMV. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helohe Posted June 24, 2019 Share #17 Posted June 24, 2019 I also have a M6TTL with 0.58 viewfinder. Never had any problems with it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted June 24, 2019 Share #18 Posted June 24, 2019 Yes, there does seem to be a lot of exaggeration going on here. My first Leica was an M6TTL 0.58x and I think I owned two more M6TTL bodies slightly later on (not sure why I felt I needed so many cameras but they were 'only' £1400 new so it was a different ballgame to the £5,000+ bodies of today) and they were all excellent cameras. It is true that the focussing patch can white out but it really isn't a big deal and I have never felt that the M7 and MP bodies I have subsequently owned have a greatly superior viewfinder. I was lent an M6TTL 0.58 by Leica only a couple of years ago whilst they repaired an M-A and I enjoyed using it. It was a perfectly adequate replacement camera (in fact, I was reminded how useful the lower magnification VF can be when you mainly use a 28mm lens). 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2019 Share #19 Posted June 24, 2019 Mine was a 0.72. I was not greatly bothered by the whiteouts, especially with the filter patch, but somehow the camera was not a very nice one. My M6 and M4 in the past were definitely smoother, not to mention my M3. And I disliked the form factor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon42 Posted June 24, 2019 Share #20 Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, jdpafundi said: Is the M7 the same coating as the M6 Classic? So I could have the bigger shutter speed dial + better VF upgrade? Get one with the MP finder update installed and the DX reader update installed. Just to save the nerves of some canine here ... I think it is SN > 2885xxx - but better google it to be sure. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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