MP used advice

[tap360]

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its 0.72 I believe

 

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[Pyrogallol]

2 hours ago, tap360 said:

I checked with Leica this morning. No record of ALC being done or CLA in past couple of years.  At the price it doesn't feel quite right.  

Narrowed it down to either: nice example chrome M4 (boxed with certificate) or M7.Although I really wanted a meter, M7 is around £500 more than the M4. 

Take the M4. You can buy a collection of exposure meters for £500 and the M4 is a better long term investment than an M7, nothing electronic inside to go wrong.

[tap360]

any thoughts on M4-P vs M4, have found a noice example of M4-P anniversary edition

[Pyrogallol]

I have an M4P as well. It feels more “modern” than the M4 but some of that might be down to the M4P being black and the M4 being classic chrome. I liked it better than the M6 I had until recently as the blinking lights from the meter of the M6 were off putting, but then I am used to using a handheld meter.

 

also, my M4P has the 28mm finder so has a wider overall viewfinder than the 35mm of the M4.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pyrogallol

[tap360]

I have a 28mm Summaron I love and want to use, so 28mm framelines has an appeal. Surprised, M4-P seems cheaper (I am looking at a chrome 70th year special) than original M4

[earleygallery]

19 minutes ago, tap360 said:

I have a 28mm Summaron I love and want to use, so 28mm framelines has an appeal. Surprised, M4-P seems cheaper (I am looking at a chrome 70th year special) than original M4

Collectors prefer the M4 as it was the last Wetzlar M before Leica almost dropped the line. Leica Canada decided to produce 'cheaper' versions with alloy instead of brass parts and some other economies (the M4-2 and M4-p). They're all fine as user cameras. 

[ianman]

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30 minutes ago, tap360 said:

I am looking at a chrome 70th year special

It's not important but don't be fooled by that name. There are many more "70th year special" M4-Ps around than standard ones.

[tap360]

Really, thought it was limited to 500

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

It's not important but don't be fooled by that name. There are many more "70th year special" M4-Ps around than standard ones.

2500 as opposed to 1834 standard chrome ones.

[a.noctilux]

3 hours ago, tap360 said:

any thoughts on M4-P vs M4, have found a noice example of M4-P anniversary edition

 

M4-P is for 28mm use while M4 need external 28mm finder.

 

I still have and use my M4-P "70th" 1913-1983  bought new while in that period, I knew only pre-owned M4s.

By then I found that M4-P was not as gentle as my then M4, something to do with the steel gears used in place of brass.

Happy to be able to use the winder (that I admit was crude) I think that I used M4-P for much more images than M4.

My many M4 needed repair or CLA but the M4-P never needed so I sold my M4s and keep M4-P and bought another "battered one"  to second it.

Just to say that for me M4-P with steel gears are more reliable than "gentle M4".

But Leica Ms are not just steel/brass gears 😵.

 

[ianman]

1 hour ago, Matlock said:

2500 as opposed to 1834 standard chrome ones.

I thought there weren't even that many standard chromes, most non "70 years" being black.

Edited June 4, 2019 by ianman

[pico]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Just to say that for me M4-P with steel gears are more reliable than "gentle M4".

My experience could be an outlier, but my MP-4 has a rough feel compared to M4s. I use it with a Saint Abrahamsson Rapidwinder II which in itself is very smooth. Try before you buy if you can. Best of luck!

Edited June 4, 2019 by pico

[Matlock]

20 minutes ago, ianman said:

I thought there weren't even that many standard chromes, most non "70 years" being black.

Total production: Black 18057, Silver Chrome 4334.

[jcraf]

17 minutes ago, pico said:

My experience could be an outlier, but my MP-4 has a rough feel compared to M4s. I use it with a Saint Abrahamsson Rapidwinder II which in itself is very smooth. Try before you buy if you can. Best of luck!

Mine too.  My own M4 is an early black paint one and it's much smoother on wind-on than any M4-2 or M4-P I've handled or owned; must be that brass/steel gear business that is often mentioned.  But the M4-P and M4-2 are of course fine cameras.

In my view, the M4 was the pinnacle. I love mine.

[tap360]

I have only tried the M4, it was beautifully smooth. Not tried the M4-P, M6 or M7

[pico]

21 minutes ago, jcraf said:

Mine too.  My own M4 is an early black paint one and it's much smoother on wind-on than any M4-2 or M4-P I've handled or owned; must be that brass/steel gear business that is often mentioned.  But the M4-P and M4-2 are of course fine cameras.

In my view, the M4 was the pinnacle. I love mine.

I have a couple M4s from a previous career as a daily newspaper photographer in the seventies PLUS another I purchased at the same time and never used. Surprise - the never used one is as slick as the heavily used which received a CLA every year. Perhaps, just maybe this challenges the 'old lubricant' opinions. Perhaps at one time independent Leica techs did The Right Thing.

 

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, pico said:

My experience could be an outlier, but my MP-4 has a rough feel compared to M4s. I use it with a Saint Abrahamsson Rapidwinder II which in itself is very smooth. Try before you buy if you can. Best of luck!

Yes Pico I agree that better use the Rapidwinder from Tom Abrahamsson in place of that old Motorized Winder.

Some years later, I use the TA Rapidwinder which inspired Leicavit-M years later when Leica "offered" (at a price) for the new MP.

Now I use alternatively Leicavit M, Leica Motor M and TA Rapidwinder that I use even with M-A (and before that MP).

 

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[Herr Barnack]

8 hours ago, tap360 said:

any thoughts on M4-P vs M4, have found a noice example of M4-P anniversary edition

I had a black lacquer MP (2003 vintage) alongside a mint M4-P in the black chrome finish.  The only substantial differences are that the M4-P has the diagonally tilted rewind crank and has no internal meter; the M4-P is also noticeably lighter in weight.  Both cameras had 0.72 viewfinders, so there were frame lines for lenses from 28mm to 135mm.  Ultimately, I traded in the MP to help pay for my first digital camera, the M240.  I still have the M4-P and do not regret trading in the MP.

Using my Sekonic L-508 when shooting with the M4-P is not at all a pain; I have used it a lot when shooting film.  I have found that if your subject does not move from one lighting situation to another where there is a drastic lighting difference (outdoor to indoor or direct sun to shadow) there is no need to meter every exposure.  If the lighting remains more or less constant, the correct shutter speed and aperture for an accurate exposure for B&W and C-41 film will remain constant also (E-6 film can be another story, depending on the light).

JMHO, but you can't go wrong with a well cared for copy of the M4-P.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Herr Barnack

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[Michael Geschlecht]

8 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Collectors prefer the M4 as it was the last Wetzlar M before Leica almost dropped the line. Leica Canada decided to produce 'cheaper' versions with alloy instead of brass parts and some other economies (the M4-2 and M4-p). They're all fine as user cameras. 

Hello James,

Wasn't there a Wetzlar built M5 built sometime after the first M4 & before Leitz considered stopping the production of M cameras?

I seem to remember some sort of range/viewfinder Wetzlar built camera that took regular "M" mount lenses around that time period.

It had a behind the lens meter, 3 separate & individually addressable flash contacts (1 of which is a hot shoe.), a removable (But not necessary to do so.) quick load spool, shutter speed in use visible in the range/viewfinder window, the BEST shutter speed setting wheel of any "M" camera & more. If I remember correctly.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Matlock]

6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello James,

Wasn't there a Wetzlar built M5 built sometime after the first M4 & before Leitz considered stopping the production of M cameras?

I seem to remember some sort of range/viewfinder Wetzlar built camera that took regular "M" mount lenses around that time period.

It had a behind the lens meter, 3 separate & individually addressable flash contacts (1 of which is a hot shoe.), a removable (But not necessary to do so.) quick load spool, shutter speed in use visible in the range/viewfinder window, the BEST shutter speed setting wheel of any "M" camera & more. If I remember correctly.

Best Regards,

Michael

The M5 was produced from 1971 to 1975 and is an excellent camera. However is was not particularly popular as it did not look much like a Leica and the early two lug models hung vertically from the strap (later models had three lugs which overcame this problem). I have a nearly mint two lug which gives great results (well the it is the lens that matters). I use a Luigi case and strap which enables the camera to be carried normally. In spite of being much larger than other M models it handles well.