My Take on the APO-Summicron SL 35mm Asph

[meerec]

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3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’ve decided to give the 75 Summicron-SL a try.

Good to hear. Had it for a year on SL and CL. Wonderful. Also complements well focal-length-wise my SL with the 16-35 and 90-280 zooms. 

[IkarusJohn]

I was thinking a good combination would be 16-35 zoom, 50 Summilux & 75 Summicron, with the TL2 as a backup, giving me the zoom either wide or as a midrange (24-52mm on the TL2), and 50/112 or 75 options.  Looking forward to getting this lens - my SL is getting neglected.

[caissa]

When the relatively big SL 35 came out, this gave me a reason to try the old and big Summilux-R 35 (for comparison or nostalgia, whichever) which had been neglected for years. The MTFs are very bad compared to the SL 35 (no hint of apo correction or of being diffraction-limited), but still I find the images very nice. Already wide open it shows a lot of detail and some sort of 3D feel. So nice actually, that I came to the conclusion I don’t need the SL 35.  😄 (5000 dollars for a marginal difference is simply too much for me. AF is also no problem - having the SL 16-35.)

Edited May 18, 2019 by caissa

[IkarusJohn]

I guess “big” is relative.  All my lenses are big compared to my 28 Summaron and my 35 Summilux pre-asph.  It seems with the SL lenses, you get what you pay for.  No one ever said they were going to be small.  Too big?  For what?

[jonoslack]

21 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’ve decided to give the 75 Summicron-SL a try.

Best lens I've ever used . . sure, theoretically the 35 is better, but for me the bokeh on the 75 is more relevant, and it's gorgeous . . . but when it's sharp, boy is it sharp (but not brutal).

I just love it!

[IkarusJohn]

Yet again, Jono - you’re costing me money!  🤣

[jonoslack]

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1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

Yet again, Jono - you’re costing me money!  🤣

yes John (sorry) but in this case it is definitely where my mouth is - I bought this lens, and I've never had a moment's regret, it's just perfect

[IkarusJohn]

Well, I haven't regretted your recommendations to date 👍

[AZN]

16 hours ago, caissa said:

When the relatively big SL 35 came out, this gave me a reason to try the old and big Summilux-R 35

The 35-Lux-R (11337) is a very good lens and plays beautifully on both the Leica SL and Sony A FE cameras, with the appropriate adapters of course.

The only problem is that the 11337 was mainly designed as a reportage lens.  So up until (say) 15m it is great, but after that things tend to get a bit muddled in the corners.  It is definitely not a landscape lens.  In fact it was so bad in the corners that I had DAG go to work on mine. It improved a fair bit, but still things are pretty bad at any f-stop for things far away.  Still love the thing for in-close f2 work.

Hence my interest in getting the (currently only in announcement phase) APO-SL-35.  It promised to be a good all-rounder.

Meanwhile I've been experimenting with the Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 M-mount Nokton.  Definitely has its issues, but has great colour and contrast and works very well in close and far away.  Especially for infinity distances it is corner to corner sharp at f5.6, f8.  Amazing really for a f1.2 lens!  The 11337 never improves no matter what stop you use.

And best of all.  You can actually buy the 40-Nokton.  Imagine that!

Eg, BHPhoto in NYC: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1378116-REG/voigtlander_ba342a_nokton_40mm_f_1_2_aspherical.html

[scott kirkpatrick]

8 hours ago, jonoslack said:

yes John (sorry) but in this case it is definitely where my mouth is - I bought this lens, and I've never had a moment's regret, it's just perfect

I bought the 75 because I got tired of waiting for the SL 50 SC (which still isn't here). and it hasn't left my SL  Previously an R 80/1.4 hadn't left my SL.  Now one of the new 35s is on a truck heading in my direction.  Perhaps all the posts moaning about the falling values of used SLs will save me from having to make a terrible decision.  Or I will be in agony until the SL2s appear... 

[jonoslack]

13 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I bought the 75 because I got tired of waiting for the SL 50 SC (which still isn't here). and it hasn't left my SL  Previously an R 80/1.4 hadn't left my SL.  Now one of the new 35s is on a truck heading in my direction.  Perhaps all the posts moaning about the falling values of used SLs will save me from having to make a terrible decision.  Or I will be in agony until the SL2s appear... 

I wonder if the value of used SLs might go up again when Leica finish their trade-in offer . . . and people realise what a corker of a camera it actually is! I'm fooling around with a Panasonic S1, and it's great . . but I don't think the 4 years of technical advance makes up for the lovely straightforward SL interface

At any rate, mine's going nowhere!

As for the lenses - I've resisted the 35, but whether I'll be able to resist the 50 is a moot point!

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jonoslack:

I wonder if the value of used SLs might go up again when Leica finish their trade-in offer . . . and people realise what a corker of a camera it actually is! I'm fooling around with a Panasonic S1, and it's great . . but I don't think the 4 years of technical advance makes up for the lovely straightforward SL interface

At any rate, mine's going nowhere!

+1. I had promised my SL to someone who wanted to use it with the 50 Noctilux, and the APO VE SL 90-280 it later turned out. I do regret selling it after getting the S1. In most situations, I would still opt for the SL. I had also noticed some difference in Highlight treatment. I'm trying to borrow an SL, again, to replicate it. I was surprised how well the SL handled Highlights relative to the S1 up to a certain ISO. But the colors do hold up better at ISO 1600 and above with the S1. Also, the S1 high ISO noise is more pleasant IMO. And IBIS, of course, can be very useful in low-light. And with the Adobe Color profile in LR, the S1 reminds me of the T. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

I wonder if the value of used SLs might go up again when Leica finish their trade-in offer . . . and people realise what a corker of a camera it actually is! 

That could address the demand side, but of course it will need to be sufficient to offset the significantly added used supply.

Jeff

[jonoslack]

44 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

+1. I had promised my SL to someone who wanted to use it with the 50 Noctilux, and the APO VE SL 90-280 it later turned out. I do regret selling it after getting the S1. In most situations, I would still opt for the SL. I had also noticed some difference in Highlight treatment. I'm trying to borrow an SL, again, to replicate it. I was surprised how well the SL handled Highlights relative to the S1 up to a certain ISO. But the colors do hold up better at ISO 1600 and above with the S1. Also, the S1 high ISO noise is more pleasant IMO. And IBIS, of course, can be very useful in low-light. And with the Adobe Color profile in LR, the S1 reminds me of the T. 

Hi There - the IBIS is nice (not that I had much problem with camera shake), and there is no question that the S1 has better High ISO and DR (but not THAT much better). . but using it does rather remind me of why I abandoned Nikon to shoot with Leica - having said that, I think the button layout and marking on the S1 is pretty good and logical, it's just that one could do without most of them!

[jonoslack]

24 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

That could address the demand side, but of course it will need to be sufficient to offset the significantly added used supply.

Jeff

HI Jeff

if the L mount takes off then the number of used SLs is going to be vanishingly small (relatively speaking), and if the L mount doesn't take off then prices were never going to stay up anyway.

Perhaps I'm unique (I don't think so), but for many purposes I really don't want more than 24mp (I don't mean "not need"!). 

 

[IkarusJohn]

Sorry to disappoint - not unique at all, at least not on that point! 🤫

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

Sorry to disappoint - not unique at all, at least not on that point! 🤫

.....which is all good and I agree with your view. But for those of us who also need resolution (because we prefer the quality it provides for very large prints, say 50”+), the new Panasonics can theoretically help keep us all happy due to their High Resolution modes.

Having looked at studio samples, my gut feel is that the S1 and S1R can produce outputs worth double their native megapixels when in High Res mode, ie, the S1R is comp’ing up well to a 100mp Bayer sensor in terms of resolution, and also with no moire or false colour.

For different reasons, it feels to me that the High Res mode is a bit like the assumed benefit many people thought with the Monochroms, ie, their resolution was about 2x a normal Bayer equivalent. 

That type of flexibility to alternate across effective resolutions — out of the same camera! — is pretty amazing IMHO, ie, “native” megapixels for many normal situations vs “high resolution” mode for other situations if they command it (like landscapes for a targeted  output of very large prints - with the camera on a tripod, naturally).....

Edited May 19, 2019 by Jon Warwick

[Jeff S]

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on LUF has stated that they’re happy with everything they now have, see no need or desire to replace or add, and then tell us how much they love some new iteration.  I could probably fund an S3 system (even without Neil’s posts). 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

Then the S1R sounds perfect for you, and the SL2 may also meet your needs.  I rather hope Leica finds a way of meeting both preferences.  For myself, I can't imagine an improvement in the SL2 that would convince me to upgrade, accept the increase in MP and take the inevitable loss on the sale of my SL.  The SL is that good, and my preference not to have more MP so strong, I don't see an upgrade coming.

However, I do acknowledge a sense of inevitability about more MP in a future SL - when my SL dies, I guess I won't have any choice, as Leica will probably not want to fix it in 5 years or so, and I will have invested rather a lot in SL lenses - they could be sold, I guess ...

PS - and to Jeff, I'd retire if you paid me a dollar for every time you explained why you were not ready for this camera or that, and we should all rent before we buy ... 🤔

Edited May 19, 2019 by IkarusJohn

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

 

PS - and to Jeff, I'd retire if you paid me a dollar for every time you explained why you were not ready for this camera or that, and we should all rent before we buy ... 🤔

I retired at 57 and usually find a way to try new gear without renting or paying.  Lots of friendly dealers and fellow enthusiasts out there.  Meanwhile, my joy comes from making pics and prints; the GAS phase ended over 20 years ago.   But playing with new stuff can still be fun and useful.

And, yes, my philosophy with most practical photographic questions and decisions (not just purchase) is to try something, experiment, and see for yourself.  A wise photo teacher instilled that early on and it has made me a better learner, photographer and printer. 

We each have our stories and viewpoints, which become clear over time for most frequent contributors here, including you and me.  That can be comforting or annoying, or even entertaining, depending on one’s perspective.

Jeff