The SL Within A Robust Competitive Landscape

[LD_50]

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In one particular niche Leica is peerless - M cameras and lenses, intimate settings, discreet and quiet.

 

Sports and events, traditionally DSLR and now Sony A9 but only once they build competitive lens line up. L line still barley affordable for majority user.

 

It leaves L for more leisurely work like landscape and yes slow lens and tripod are perfect companions.

 

No doubt Panasonic will go after video users and Sigma-Foveon after landscape users, I guess SL2 will be of some interest to those who missed the news about evolution in medium format or L alliance or must have red dotted camera.

I don’t understand these market summaries. They are so subjective and often almost irrelevant for a company like Leica. Leica just doesn’t compete head on with Sony and Canon and Nikon for many consumers. It’s a luxury brand that targets a niche in the market.

 

As an example, I don’t use the SL for leisurely tripod work very often at all. I use it as a general purpose, fast, high quality camera with great ergonomics and UI. I can shoot M lenses or carry the native 16-35 or 24-90 along with the 50 as my walkabout kit. I traded from a Nikon kit that served the same purpose.

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[jaapv]

Indeed - and I have used the M for wildlife and Macro - regularly.

[mmradman]

I don’t understand these market summaries. They are so subjective and often almost irrelevant for a company like Leica. Leica just doesn’t compete head on with Sony and Canon and Nikon for many consumers. It’s a luxury brand that targets a niche in the market.

As an example, I don’t use the SL for leisurely tripod work very often at all. I use it as a general purpose, fast, high quality camera with great ergonomics and UI. I can shoot M lenses or carry the native 16-35 or 24-90 along with the 50 as my walkabout kit. I traded from a Nikon kit that served the same purpose.

Funny, you stated not to understand but reapeted in your own words what I said in my own words. Your words; Leica is luxury brand that targetd a niche in the Market., my words; for those who must have red dotted camera.

 

This is internet, of course my opinion is subjective, even Financial Times editorial is subjective. If you want to read objective marke5 summary I can t help you, do you have more objective view?

[mmradman]

Indeed - and I have used the M for wildlife and Macro - regularly.

Indeed you have. Didn’t you posted few days ago about your current safari trip with CL and Panasonic M43 systems.

[LD_50]

Funny, you stated not to understand but reapeted in your own words what I said in my own words. Your words; Leica is luxury brand that targetd a niche in the Market., my words; for those who must have red dotted camera.

 

This is internet, of course my opinion is subjective, even Financial Times editorial is subjective. If you want to read objective marke5 summary I can t help you, do you have more objective view?

The words I don’t understand are those I did not repeat. Specifically your assessment of what Leica’s cameras and lenses are useful for.

 

My “more objective” viewpoint is that Leica is priced high enough not to compete with other brands for market share for any type of photography.

 

The types of photography Leicas are good for are up to the consumer and the price is irrelevant to that discussion.

[mmradman]

The words I don’t understand are those I did not repeat. Specifically your assessment of what Leica’s cameras and lenses are useful for.

My “more objective” viewpoint is that Leica is priced high enough not to compete with other brands for market share for any type of photography.

The types of photography Leicas are good for are up to the consumer and the price is irrelevant to that discussion.

We seem to be in agreement and disagreement.

 

Thread title is SL (L) within a robust competitive landscape. Yes to the point I would say. Those who want it and those who are prepared to pay for it will buy it. Many will not, will choose instead different system. With L alliance products on the horizon there ar3 options to buy into either Leica L lenses or Leica L cameras but not necessarily both.

[jaapv]

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Indeed you have. Didn’t you posted few days ago about your current safari trip with CL and Panasonic M43 systems.I started out with an M3, Visofle

Indeed I did. Times change and I with them. I started out with an M3, Visoflex2 and Telyt 400 "Trombone" in 1988.

[Mr.Q]

The definition of “best” is important here. If you discount ergonomics and lens speed, I may be more willing to discount price. Maybe Phase One is the best. Or Canon FF with the available tilt shift lenses or M43 with the small high quality telephotos, etc.

 

"Best" usually refers to the most preferred choice by a consumer, or in this case, a high amateur or professional.

 

 

For serious landscape work, most would agree that a combo of system weight, resolution, and optics is what's important. Fuji GFX checks the boxes on all fronts.

 

It's my belief that lens speed and ergonomics are subjective, although most serious landscape shots are on a tripod, and a lot of folks would prefer to have a tilting EVF or LCD.  

 

Price is also objective and Fuji's are a huge bargain for what they bring to the table.

 

Those are my thoughts for the "best" landscape system. What's your's?

[johnbuckley]

My thought is that the SL is nearly perfect as a landscape system.  It has the brilliant customizable button/menu system of the S.  It's size and weight is workable for landscape (though I resist it for city photography, given the M's perfection for such.). It has a wonderful sensor and brilliant native zoom and prime lenses, more of them on the way, and can easily be adapted to use M, R, or S lenses too.  Its sensor is three years old and needs to be upgraded with more megapixels, which isn't too much to ask, nor too much to expect.  

 

I do think given the competitive landscape (if you will), Leica would be wise to upgrade it on less than a four-year cycle.  Three years ago, there was no Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X1D, if my memory serves.  Now there is -- and also competition they've enabled with the L Mount.  I'd like Leica to roll out a new SL sooner rather than later before it loses people like Mr. Q to Fuji, or other mirrorless systems.  I'm not a threat to leave the SL ecosystem, I'm just impatiently hoping for a new SL to be introduced, sooner than in the fall of 2019.

[BernardC]

I'd like Leica to roll out a new SL sooner rather than later before it loses people like Mr. Q to Fuji, or other mirrorless systems.

There will always be people switching systems (or threatening to do so on internet forums). That wouldn't stop if Leica introduced updates every month...

 

Reminds me of an observation I shared with my mechanic, about people who are crossing the street in one direction, from VW to Nissan, saying "I'll never buy a VW again!" Meanwhile, just as many people are crossing the street in the other direction, saying "I'll never buy a Nissan again!" The party who gains from this ballet is the the company that owns both franchises!

 

I am not saying that you should not change systems when your needs change. However, you should also realize that the industry is dedicated to making you feel like your current system is obsolete and inadequate, and should be replaced at high cost, every few months. It's not even unusual to read rants about how cameras that aren't yet available for sale have been obsoleted by other cameras that may not come out for a year or more.

Edited October 5, 2018 by BernardC

[johnbuckley]

Leica SL released November 2015.

[meerec]

Leica SL released November 2015.

That’s a good thing.

1/ stopped me from spending more money unnecessarily

2/ I bought mine right in December 2015, enjoyed its value for close to three years now

[Mr.Q]

My thought is that the SL is nearly perfect as a landscape system.  It has the brilliant customizable button/menu system of the S.  It's size and weight is workable for landscape (though I resist it for city photography, given the M's perfection for such.). It has a wonderful sensor and brilliant native zoom and prime lenses, more of them on the way, and can easily be adapted to use M, R, or S lenses too.  Its sensor is three years old and needs to be upgraded with more megapixels, which isn't too much to ask, nor too much to expect.  

 

I do think given the competitive landscape (if you will), Leica would be wise to upgrade it on less than a four-year cycle.  Three years ago, there was no Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X1D, if my memory serves.  Now there is -- and also competition they've enabled with the L Mount.  I'd like Leica to roll out a new SL sooner rather than later before it loses people like Mr. Q to Fuji, or other mirrorless systems.  I'm not a threat to leave the SL ecosystem, I'm just impatiently hoping for a new SL to be introduced, sooner than in the fall of 2019.

 

I'm not leaving   I don't shoot in the studio nor am I serious enough about landscapes to switch to medium format. I'm just stating my case of why a lot of landscape photographers would consider the Fuji's to be a more competent system.

 

Having said that, I'd like to have more megapixels. I currently have four 24MP cameras in the Q, M10P, SL and X-T2 which is starting to make me feel like the SL is a bit redundant. At the same resolution and sensor tech, the IQ coming out of the SL (even with the SL primes) isn't much better than the M10 or Q, so it's hard to justify the extra weight for hiking, travelling, or just for general use. 40+MP and no LENR would differentiate the SL from the rest of the pack. It will be camera I'll use when printing large is a possibility.

[lx1713]

...

I currently have four 24MP cameras in the Q, M10P, SL and X-T2 which is starting to make me feel like the SL is a bit redundant. At the same resolution and sensor tech, the IQ coming out of the SL (even with the SL primes) isn't much better than the M10 or Q, so it's hard to justify the extra weight for hiking, travelling, or just for general use. 40+MP and no LENR would differentiate the SL from the rest of the pack. It will be camera I'll use when printing large is a possibility.

 

That's a nice 24mp problem to have 

Personally, my categorisation would be

M10 = 5% of annual revenue

Q = 15% of annual revenue

SL = 75% of annual revenue

50+ MP = 5% of revenue.

 

Because they do different things for me but I'm not laughing at you. It's a nice fact that Q,M10 and SL delivers equally.